271: Rising through the Club Ranks: Tom Wallace's Story

Speaker 1: 2:02

Hey everyone, welcome back to Private Club Radio. I'm your host, Denny Corby, entertainer, magician, comedian. Head on over to theclubentertainerscom Jamellas Plug. You're looking for amazing entertainment for your club. I have me a couple other very close vetted colleagues and acts that I know are trusted for all my club clients. On this episode we chat with Tom Wallace, Thomas Wallace III, CCM, CCE, ECM, ABC, ACDC It's okay, I bust him for how many letters he has. It's pretty impressive, But we have a fun episode. He is a partner over at KK&W, a very reputable organization in the Private Club community, And we have a cool chat. We learn a little bit about how he got started in the club world, which is pretty funny because it's about his dad's choice of foods which really got him started into the club world. He's an award-winning manager, obviously with all of the acronyms after his name ABCs, all that stuff I'm going to start making some up. I'll put them in my LinkedIn profile. I'm kidding, I thought about putting CCM Certified Club Magician, but I think that would ruffle a lot of feathers in the club world. He also teaches at Georgia State University and won the Gary Player Educator of the Year back in 2020. He's known for his strong leadership skills, his ability to build high-performing teams And that's what we talk about a lot in this episode is his story, his leadership and knowledge passing on to younger club professionals. Right now, What's important, What's going on in industry, What are key people and clubs looking for, And just leadership advice. We hear his story. It's really good. So thank you for tuning in and let's pass it over and welcome Mr Tom Wallace, ABCDEFG, KK&W. So, Mr Wallace, thank you so much for hopping on with me. Really cool for you to be on. Really appreciate it. To get things started, what was the color of your first car?

Speaker 2: 4:11

Color of my first car was a 1980 rust colored Ford Escort with white vinyl interior. I'll never forget that car. It cost me a grand total of $300. But it was mine. I paid for it and I think it had 100,000 miles when I got it Rust it was literally that was the color on the title rust. I was going to say.

Speaker 1: 4:46

I had a puke green Ford Focus, so I think yours might end.

Speaker 2: 4:49

Yeah, it could be worse, so kind of a brown-orange, but it was called rust And I don't know why anyone would ever name their paint color on a car rust, but that's what I had.

Speaker 1: 4:59

Automatic or manual.

Speaker 2: 5:02

Manual, of course, definitely A five-speed. And yeah, it did not even have a slot for a radio, so you couldn't even get an aftermarket radio. There was not a slot for it.

Speaker 1: 5:16

So, you would have somebody in the car that you'd want to talk to, because if not, it's so awkward Yeah exactly Somebody that could at least sing or hum something or something.

Speaker 2: 5:24

Yeah, at least keep the entertainment going.

Speaker 1: 5:27

That or the car probably just made enough noises that it just took over. You didn't really need a radio anyway.

Speaker 2: 5:33

Yeah, it had a complete life of its own. It did mostly what it wanted to do, and I was just along for the ride.

Speaker 1: 5:41

Literally No pun intended.

Speaker 2: 5:43

Literally.

Speaker 1: 5:45

So you have a really cool background, a lot of stuff in the club world. How did you get into the club world?

Speaker 2: 5:53

I actually my father was a police officer in the city where my first club, the country club, was, and he said I have two jobs for you. You can go start shining shoes at this country club or you can clean this lot. I know a guy owns a dry cleaner. You can clean the dry cleaners after hours. Which one? I said well, what do you think? He said I've heard the foods pretty good at the club. So that was it. That was a pivotal life decision, based on my dad's appetite, i guess. But yeah, he got me a job shining shoes and started when I was at 14, and kind of, the rest was history. But yeah, that was. He had two jobs. I just followed my dad's direction, that's all.

Speaker 1: 6:39

So what was the process? So you went from shining shoes. How long did that last? And then, what was the next step there?

Speaker 2: 6:46

Yeah, well, i spent the better part of the next 13, 14 years at country, learning, doing everything, started shining shoes. It was a dishwasher, was a prep cook, was a waiter, a busboy, a bartender, worked my way up to becoming the assistant manager And then I became the interim general manager. A couple of times While I was there I went through several GM's, a couple of GM's that work there. I was waiting to go into the police academy because that's what my father, that's what the family business was. And when I was waiting to do that, i had a manager, a couple managers, that told me you know, maybe you should do this, you're pretty good at it. And I was like, no, i'm pretty sure I want to be a cop. That's kind of what my dad does, And you know, this is one of those kind of households that I grew up in. And they said, no, you're really good at this. So I became an assistant manager, became an interim manager and eventually I was named the Interim General Manager and at the same time I had an opportunity to interview at at Oakmont Country Club, which was sometime I think I was 27, so it would have been around 2000. And I got a chance to go up there. I interviewed. It was somebody had dropped out, so I got the interview notice the day before. They said could you be at Oakmont first in the morning tomorrow? And I said I sure can. And so I made the trip, got up there and somehow interviewed well, it was a. I woke up that morning to drive up and it was, there was probably a foot of snow and it was not the easiest drive ever. And I got there just in time and sat down, did an hour interview and I could not even tell you one thing about the interview other than I remember obviously the people that were in there because I ended up getting the job. But I don't remember any questions. I just remember being just scared and kind of frozen. It was really the first time I had ever interviewed for a job, was interviewing to become the GM at Oakmont And I got that job. I spent the next 10 years at Oakmont, which was wonderful, and started my family. Right before I got to Oakmont I had my first kid and had our daughter there, had a great run. I had a great team. We had three national championships, did a bunch of renovations you know probably $50 million in capital renovations. My current partner, kurt Kiebler, came to me then in 2011 and said I have this recently bankrupt club in Naples, florida, the community club, a couple billion dollar real estate community. It's kind of climbing its way back but it's going to be a lot of work, but if you could do it, it really would be, you know, a nice feather in your cap. And I was like, well, yeah, i was just young and young enough and had enough fire in my belly to think, yeah, i want to go down and try to do that. So I went down there and it was as hard as Kurt described it to plus and did that. Bill, a great team there. The brought down Karma Masuri, who's the GM there, gm COO there now. Well, we put a great team together and we got the place turned around and Meditera was a beautiful community but just didn't really have a brand or understand where it wanted to go. But I think the team that we put together really got it turned around and it's probably one of the premier communities in the country now. But there's a couple of years there where we didn't know where it was going and if we're going to be able to turn the corner. But we did and really proud of that. And during that whole process, obviously I had gotten a no, dick and Kurt, who were icons in the industry, and they said would you ever want to come work for me, for us? And I said I don't think so. I said because I just again was kind of like when I was a kid, no, i'm going to be a cop. That's because, like I just I kind of was stuck, you know, just going with what I thought was the right thing. And they said, well, think about it. And then when I left Oakmont I really enjoyed turning Meditera around, but the more I saw that I was having continued success wherever I was working, i kind of felt like maybe, maybe I could help more than just one club at a time. And I started talking to Dick and Kurt more seriously And after four years at Meditera I decided it was a good time to make take that step. And actually, as we were talking earlier, it also gave me the ability of my father had fallen ill And it again, i really didn't like being in Florida when my dad was in Cleveland. So it gave me the chance to not only go work for two icons but get back home and be around my dad when he was dealing with some illness. So it all kind of is serendipitous timing And it's all kind of worked out, i'd say.

Speaker 1: 11:44

Between talking to people here already and even just successful people throughout that I've met throughout my life. A lot of it comes down to leadership, which I know we're going to talk about in a minute, but the working your way up through the ranks. it's always fascinating to hear about people who start off at very low levels and then just working up every single way, every aspect, every part of the club, because you have pretty much every title. you have CCM, cce, ecm, abc, xyz, yyz. You even have the IIF after your name. So it was just born for you. You have more commas in your titles than most people have letters in their name. Really unbelievable.

Speaker 2: 12:39

I'm very lucky.

Speaker 1: 12:41

The sign of your name is just like you get like couple times. So why do you think you stuck with the club world? I think anybody really having to shine shoes and just do all those I don't want to say odd jobs, because they're all very important, but what do you think helps you get through there? It's not very common that you see people at your age work that hard, especially now, like 14-year-olds and stuff. So can you take us back a little bit, because I think where I'm trying to go with this is success leaves clues, so there's something to be said about this. So can you talk a little bit more about your kind of childhood and just working in the clubs and how you bopped from each thing and why you went from each department and just kept moving up and up?

Speaker 2: 13:33

Yeah, i think. Well, i mean everything that I my work life. I would say my father gave me the base. He worked his butt off. He's one of six kids. He didn't make that much money, i think as a cop. I think his best year he made around $65,000. And I remember I got to that point in my early 20s and I had to stop letting my dad do my taxes because I was like I don't want to, i don't want one. He's going to ask me where all my money's going to. I don't want to create any odd feelings but I know he'd be proud of me. But I just didn't know. He was just a hard worker. My dad had to work. He worked his regular job and then he did a lot of side jobs as a security or police officer just to kind of make ends meet. So I didn't know anything other than just hard work. My dad was a 75, 80 hour week work week guy And so I think I just followed that. I think once I got into the club space I was surrounded by the senior 60, 70 year old men that were shining shoes and just had incredible stories. I remember just it was like I had four new grandfathers all these old guys that were shining shoes and they took me in and they tell me all the ins and outs, every member. They had a story for every member. You know this guy and this guy and this guy, but it just taught me one. They were just so caring and they wouldn't let you be lazy, you couldn't, you wouldn't slack on those guys. They would be like what are you doing? Get up, let's go. There was no slow, there was no low gear with them. So I liked that, but they always cared for me. They always made sure I ate, they always made sure that I knew what to do. I remember being pretty lost and just getting thrown into that chime room and they, just they, took great care of me and they never, you know, i remember all of those gentlemen so well and so fondly telling stories that I probably didn't need to hear at 14. But all good education. And then you know. So I had all these wonderful employees that took me under their wing and then all these wonderful members that over time, started to, you know, take me under their wing and teach me things and tell me things, people that I I probably wouldn't have been able to be around if my dad hadn't gotten me the job there and they were kind of the hosu of my town And so it was neat. You know people that I probably would have been impressed to have met once in my life I started to get to hang around with and they really took me under their wing. So I think that's what my father's drive and just his work ethic, i think people taking interest in me, both from my co-workers but also the members you know they really I think they felt like I was a nice young man and they wanted to see me do good things, and so I just was lucky and people just kept kind of pulling me up and saying you know what? now you need to learn. If you're gonna, you should do this, it'll pay you a little more. You should do this, it'll pay you a little more, you'll learn a little bit more. Hang out with chef. You should work for chef for a year. So it's just people looking after me and keeping me out of trouble, which is, i think, the main reason my dad wanted me to have a job. And but then just wonderful people that really care And it is a family. The club space, you know there's members. You either have a bag tag or a name tag, but you're a fit part of a family And you know I still bump into people from country from 20 years ago that can't believe they've seen me and we talk and we could talk for 30 minutes about all the things we went through together. So I think it was that. I think I mean from a as a from a leadership perspective. I had a 200 employee adult employees that I looked up to. I saw them. What not to do, i saw what to do. I had GMs that I was like, boy, i'll never act like that. And then I have GMs that I saw that I'm like someday I'm going to be as cool as that guy or that girl. So, yeah, it was just, it was really absorbing everything around me and just having the ability to. I think the one thing I have going for me is that which has changed over the years was I was quiet and I listened more than I talked, and I think that really helped me to bond to a lot of people.

Speaker 1: 18:04

Do you think leaders are born or?

Speaker 2: 18:07

made. Well, i think they're made, absolutely. I think, yeah, i don't know. I think, again, it's about opportunities that are put in front of you and what happens when you, what you do with the opportunities that are put in front of you. I definitely think leader, certainly, i think if you're again, we're in the search business I've seen people that, from a behavioral assessment, don't have the personality maybe to be a great leader quote, unquote but end up being wonderful leaders. So I definitely think it's the people you meet, the people that and your ability to absorb information and want to continue to learn. I think if you have a, if you work really hard and you really want to continue to learn and you have, you're a good person and you're empathetic I think you can evolve into a great leader.

Speaker 1: 18:58

How can a leader be made? What can a person do So like? let's just say they're younger, maybe not knowing. Let's say they're already a leader, want to become a better leader. What do you think separates good leaders from bad leaders, good leaders from great leaders? What do you think is that separation?

Speaker 2: 19:13

Well, you have to if you're a young person, go to work at a place that has a reputation for teaching and developing people. I would say the country club is one of the finest places in the world. But when I was coming up in the industry, people weren't focused on developing young people. That wasn't like you just had a job and, if you were lucky, you had nice people that were more tenured around you, that were helping you and teaching you. But nowadays, i mean I think the way the industry is, it's so hard to attract great talent. I think a lot of clubs have become, you know, teaching environments where you know if you go to work for this club, you're going to get career development. You're going to get you're going to see a track record of people before you that advanced into the industry. You're going to get inspired leaders that are going to be your mentors while, not only while you're on property, but even long after you leave. I always tell people go to a place that has a culture of creativity. If you typically, if it's a great club, they'll have a great culture of creativity, they'll have a culture of transparency. That's one of the things you asked earlier. You know what helped me succeed. I would tell you that I never had anybody never once say you don't need to know that, because I would ask a lot of questions. And I think you need to be. You know, i think you need to have a servant heart to do well as a hospitality person, but you have to be curious and you have to be competitive. I think if you really want to be good, you have to have those three, those three things. But no one ever said Tom, you don't need to know that. So, but some clubs can be like that, but you want to go work at a club that has a culture of transparency, that's going to share everything. They're not going to give you the super secret stuff that you shouldn't know, but they're going to tell you everything about that's going on so that you can understand and grow. Some of the things that, some of the best things that I learned, weren't things that, but there were more experiences. People weren't afraid to let me sit in meetings. People weren't afraid. I remember my controller. I'd say what is a budget? I remember literally saying that when I was 17, what is a budget? And he was like, oh boy, like his face lit up, like he's like you just asked me a question and it's going to cost you two hours of your life And he went into this whole diatribe. But he taught me about devets and credits And I was in high school. But keep in mind, in high school you're like you're trying to at least for me, i was trying to get by, play sports, have fun, and he taught me everything about budgets, didn't hesitate to say come to my office. And that was the great thing is one, have a teaching environment. But two, be in a place that they're going to let you experience the things you have to experience to learn and to grow as a leader. So transparency is important. Technology nowadays you want to go to work for a company that's a club, that's technology driven, that really has a track record of taking great care of your club. Like I look back now, one of the most important things in any organization is getting oriented so that you know how to perform when you're in there. I don't think I ever had an orientation or review ever until I was in my, until I was well into my second or third year at OPMON. So I never. You know, i just every year I get a 25 cent raise and I was just like, okay, awesome, i just kept moving. But you know, i don't never think anyone ever told me here's what you're supposed to wear, here's what time breaks are. That just didn't exist. Human resources, as it were, didn't exist back then. But you learned, you know. I think there's a difference between or there's orientation, which I think you need, so you know what's right, what's wrong, where to go. Then there's culturalization, and I think that's what I got at country. I got a bunch of great people that took me aside and said here are the things you absolutely can never do, or you're going to be fired. Don't do this. And then here are the things you can get away with it right up until this point, and then you're going to get fired. So play within there and you're good. And that's why I think culturalization is. I always tell people, great organizations will orient you, but they'll also tie you to a couple of key employees that will culturalize you and really teach you the ways of the road within the building and within the company. So I think that's very important. And, yeah, i mean, there's so many, so many keys. It's young people today. They really have to. They're more interested in work life synergy. I was. I didn't have that. I wish you know, if I look back and find me reflective as a father, i probably should have had better work-life synergy, but I think companies nowadays know that young people want that and they're focused on that and that's important, meaningful work. You know, collegiality. I remember once I was I had a boss that told me that I talked too much and he put a time limit on how long I could talk to other coworkers. And I remember thinking to myself that is not hospitality, i go, you can't, you know. But he was just this old grumpy guy and he was just like you talk too much. He's like you're like a social butterfly, and I remember hearing that That was the first time I had ever heard someone call me say the word social butterfly, but I then knew what it meant after that. But I think all those things you have to have. People want to have fun at work. Young people want to have fun at work. They want to have reasonable expectations, they want to have accountabilities. They want to have, they want you to be caring about their personal health and their well-being And they want frequent you know feedback. At the end of the day, they like to get frequent positive feedback And you've got to be an organization that's willing to do that and take the time. And of course, you want to make money Everybody's. You're working because you need to, but at the end of the day, i think all those other things come in front when you're trying to develop yourself as a leader. That's for sure.

Speaker 1: 25:25

You mentioned a couple of times the word creativity and culture and staffing. How are clubs, you know, creatively maneuvering these kind of sticky time?

Speaker 2: 25:36

Yeah, well, i think it's, you know, i think that it's holistically. You've got to have a holistic approach. One of the things big organizations they have a. They have a holistic approach to the team, to a teammate's lifecycle. You know how are you going to recruit them, how you know who's the part of the selection process. We talked about orientation. We talked about culture setting. Once they're in, do you continue to train and develop them? How much money and time do you spend on recognition and retention? There's got to be a plan about that. How do you give that feedback, that gentle feedback? How do you give the positive feedback? How do you give the negative feedback And how do you continue to develop them so they know that you care? I see a lot of clubs developing an employer of choice committee. I think. I think if there's one committee I'm not, i don't think we should be adding committees. I think the paid staff should be running clubs with the help of the board and some committees, but I do think I do think that you need a human resource or a employer of choice committee, a group of HR professionals that are members helping your general manager and your HR staff really look at how you're doing everything. I think great clubs are the employer of choice in their community. I mean, you think about 25 years ago that wasn't the way clubs were looked at, where there were the gated things up on the top of the hill. Now you know, great clubs are pillars of the community and they're the employer of choice, not only by pay, but by development, by giving back those kinds of things. I think those are the big keys. Focusing, one of the things we tell boards you should be talking about human capital. Every board meeting You should be talking about how are we looking? are we? what are we paying compared to our comp set? What are we doing for recognition and retention? How are our Christmas bonuses compared to our competitors? You know, how are our employee satisfaction surveys versus our competitors? You know, a lot of times. Oftentimes I talk to general managers and they all do exit interviews, but maybe one in 10 are doing stay interviews. So it's really important that you're surveying. Young people wanna give you feedback. They you know I always tell the story of my kids like to give reviews on everything they do And I'm like don't do that. It's really annoying And they're like why They wanna know. I'm like they don't wanna know I was like they're short staffed. Well, i didn't like my food. I tell this story all the time. My daughter was like my salmon was terrible. It took forever. I said yeah, bailey won. The hostess actually had a section. They were so understaffed that she was hostessing and taking two tables close to the hostess stand. I said the guys in the kitchen? it was an open kitchen. I said I could tell the one guy was like right about ready to walk out. I said we're lucky, we got food. I said no Yelp reviews. But young people do want to give feedback And, i'll be honest, great organizations do wanna know how their employees feel. If you don't know how they feel, you don't ask them when they're leaving why they're leaving. I mean, that's valuable in some ways, but I'd rather know why they're unhappy right now and can I fix it to keep you. So I think all those parts are important. I think there's gotta be a teammate life cycle strategy around. It starts at the beginning how you're gonna recruit, where you're gonna recruit all the way to. Okay, you're not gonna keep moving up. You don't wanna become a general manager? That's fine. What do you wanna do? Well, you're going to school for finance. Okay, i'm gonna connect you with the five highest rated finance guys that are members here And I'm gonna make sure they know that you're gonna need a job when you come out of college And I'm gonna leverage those friendships that I have and that we have at the club to help you And that's gonna make that more enriching experience for you. If I say you work here for four years during college and I'm gonna leverage every member I can to help you get a great job, that's gonna mean something Because, as we both know, it's a lot of it in life is who you know.

Speaker 1: 29:45

I heard someone told me once it's not always who you know, it's who knows you. There you go. And I was like, oh, that's even better, yeah, yeah. I was like, oh, that's good Cause. I was like, cause, it's the same thing. I was like, oh, it's not you know, it's who you know. They're like, no, it's not who you know, it's who knows you. I was like, what do you mean? They go cause you can know everybody, but if they don't know you, bad, it's irrelevant. And I was like, oh man, that's good, you know, that is a really interesting thing you said there. I really liked that because you know it takes it from now. That's like a indistinguishable value add that you're creating at the club with a mindset like that, cause, now it's, the club is not just a club and the members aren't just having like a membership. It's now, oh, the club's looking out for me in different ways. So now it's the clubs making them money, possibly because now they might just get a brand new finance person, they might just get a new sales person who was a busboy but has a great personality and now they're doing sales for them. So it's just amazing that the different things that you can, the value you can create in a club world for the members beyond just initiation fees, dues and golf and food and beverage.

Speaker 2: 30:57

Yeah, and I think it's funny and this is just a thought. But there's not. As people have gotten younger, there's less segmentation, like young members see young employees and they bond with them and they're not like well, there's a level of appropriateness you have to keep. But they want to help. If you're taking care of them, you're giving them their Easter's, their Christmases, their holidays, their great weekend. You're giving them their memories with their family. When you say, hey, can you help Tom Wallace, he's a finance major, he needs an internship, i guarantee you they're going to make some calls to me. I've never in my life and I've probably leveraged my friendships with members 200, 300 times I've never had someone say no. They say send me the resume and once in a while they never follow back up with me from the employee side and I'll be like are you? nuts, What are you doing? But for the most part they're happy to help and proud to carry on that family connectivity into their professional life.

Speaker 1: 32:03

Great word leverage. Love that word, love that word leverage. Oh, that's so good. So you also help people get jobs. You help, you put people into positions. Someone who's maybe a little bit younger. what can they do? What can they not do? What are some qualities you look for? Are resumes still super relevant? This is me. just I'm in a different world. I don't think I've had a resume in years, but the older I get, sometimes a resume isn't always the most important thing, because now, with social media LinkedIn their resumes are out there for the most part. So what can younger people do? What are things clubs are looking for? How can they get in? How can you help them?

Speaker 2: 32:49

Yeah, well, i have to just say because once a week I'm blown away by the stupidity of what people put on social media. And I mean that lovingly. I love my industry. I've been doing this since I'm 14, and I love everybody. But come on, folks Like and oftentimes they'll say I forgot that I put that up there. I was like, well, if take a look once and go back, rewind And I know I mean I get it If someone who's 35, there's a pretty good chance at 25, you put something stupid on there that would be found to be inappropriate. But and it's always that way, they're like oh my gosh, i forgot. I posted that. It's like really, take a look. Yes, resumes are important in LinkedIn. Linkedin's more important. Now I would tell you that we resumes are very important once you get past one hurdle. But I think LinkedIn and that that that's the gatekeeper now, that's the people get to see you, they get to see a little bit about your history, then if they get a resume after that. But people go to LinkedIn right away now. So LinkedIn's a big thing. Social media they don't. We still have an older demographic that the majority of the leaders of clubs and board members are a little you know, aren't 30 or 40. They're more like 50 or 60. But there's some younger boards. But LinkedIn's important Resumes are really important Social media from the perspective of if you have a club LinkedIn or a club Instagram, members will look at that. They'll look and see what you've put up. But, yeah, resumes are important from a skill set perspective. They, you know, they continue to evolve. From a personal perspective, you need to be if you want to be a great leader in this industry, and this is not just me. This is what our search committees are telling us. We do a hundred and some searches a year. They want somebody that's self aware, and self aware really gets down to And that's one of my favorites is what does self aware mean? Self aware means someone that knows they're surrounded by brilliant people and that they don't always have to be the smartest person in the room. You know, i think of myself as a young manager and I tried to keep the board members and the search committee or the committee members out of my, out of my space. By the time I was a tenure manager, i was like I have all these smart people. I got to tap into this. Why am I trying to do this all on my own. These people want to help, they love this place. But so, but it takes you a while to evolve into that kind of leader. When you're a young leader, you think you're a hero leader. I could do it myself, you know. But and then what I like to call a leverage leader. By the time you get to be a leverage leader, you realize let's tap into everybody, let's have everybody do their part and we're all going to look good and we're all going to move forward together. So I think there there's an evolution from from hero leader or leverage leader. But self awareness is the number one thing we always hear. We want somebody that knows what they know and isn't ashamed to say what they say. Listen, i don't know. I don't know that, but I can. I'll get you the information. I promise there's no shame in not knowing everything. You need to be a visionary. They want somebody that's creative. They want somebody that is going to lead the club. That's a skill set that you you have to be able to paint a picture of what the club's going to look like tomorrow, a month from now and then five years from now, and be able to not only talk about it, but deliver on that. I think club. You have a lot of smart people in clubs, but there shouldn't be anybody smarter than you when it comes to where the club should be going. You should be up to date on trends and things like that. You should be saying here's what's happening in the industry and here's what I think we should do for Acme Country Club and here's how I think we should get there. Now you might get some other opinions from the members. That's fine, but they really do want you to be the leader in the boardroom. They want you to take the club to the next level. Obviously, accountability one of the great skill sets that has come out of not only COVID, but you go all the way back to the financial downturn 0809. You have to have accountability. Everybody in a club has to have accountability. The board has accountability to the membership, the GM has accountability to the board, the committees have accountability to the board and the general manager and the department has accountability to the GM. So accountability is important and that's not something that has always existed but certainly over the years has evolved into a real key ability. You have to be able to hold people accountable. Integrity, certainly execution One of the things we hear all the time. Danny in the search businesses. You know Tom had a lot of great ideas. He could tell us about it, but he could never push the button and make it happen. You know you have to be both an architect and a builder. You have to actually be able to not only talk about something great, but you need to be able to actually make it happen. Employees want somebody that's detail oriented, charismatic, somebody that manages change. Change management used to be something prior to COVID that we always used to talk about. The best managers really know how to manage change, but really clubs were changing like this much every year. Now clubs change like this much and you can't even keep up. One of my favorite lines is we used to move like cruise ships, now we move like jet skis. We could change on a dime, which I think will help us continue to be a viable option for people's leisure dollar and leisure time in the future. I think clubs were moving too slow for many decades. Now I think we're on the cutting edge of hospitality because we realized when it got right down to it, people were comfortable coming to their clubs. They weren't comfortable getting on planes, going to hotels, going to big resorts. That's something we have to remember and continue to kind of foster. That was a great thing for us.

Speaker 1: 38:54

What about? let's say there are some clubs that are still moving at cruise ship speeds. How can they put the thrusters on a little bit? How are some starting points? I know sometimes it's not always difficult because, like you said, there's committees when there shouldn't be, there's a lot of hands and pots that shouldn't be there. What are some easy things that clubs can do to kind of start that process a little bit, to kind of get that boost?

Speaker 2: 39:15

Well, i think the number one. well, two things I think. you have to have great governance. You have to have good structure. If you have good governance, everybody knows what their job is, what their goals are and what sandbox they're allowed to play in and what sandbox they're not allowed to play in. That will help with that structure. But then the other part is you have to have a strategy and a business plan. If you don't have a strategic plan, how many managers, how many people go into a business and don't have a business plan? But often in the club space there are a lot of clubs that don't have a strategic plan. So you need to have a strategic plan. If you have a strategic plan, it holds everybody accountable. So if you get in front of your membership and say in two years we're going to build this, in three years we're going to build this and do this, and then you don't do that, then that's where the accountability comes in. Then people will look at you going are you the right manager? Are you the right board president? You really need some structure like that. So, good governance and, i think, a strategic plan. Every club, regardless of your financial wherewithal, needs to have a business plan for where you want to go for the next two, three years And everybody needs to know that plan so that you could be held accountable to it. But it also gives you some focus. One of the things I always make a joke about is when you come into a club. if there's 500 members, 500 people are going to tell you how to run the place. But you could listen and that's part of their right as a dues paying member. But if you don't actually have a plan, you have to filter through those 500 people and figure out what's real, what should I really be doing, what leverage should I really be pulling and what's just someone that's got a personal agenda. But you don't have to worry about that if you have a strategic plan. All businesses are driven by great planning And if you have a great strategic plan, it will help you as a leader, the general manager and it'll help the board stay focused on the future Crazy times.

Speaker 1: 41:17

There's a lot of amazing things happening in our world. There's a lot of bad things happening in our world. What are some things you see clubs doing that they should stop doing immediately?

Speaker 2: 41:29

Well, i think not raising dues because you're afraid. You know people are, things are tight, inflation's real. But I think, just like any business, you can't not raise dues every year. Things are getting more expensive. You can't be afraid, you can't kick the can down the road. As a board, as a general manager, raise dues. You have to raise dues to keep up with the costs of living And you have to do that every year And you have to make sure your members are comfortable with that. So don't. If you're at a club where they're not raising dues, you're going to benefit for this year or next year, but in a few years they're going to hit you with a 20% dues increase. That's really going to upset a lot of people. So keep raising dues. Run the club like a business. No more emotional decision making. Use data. Use every business that all of our members run. They use data to make business decisions, but sometimes in clubs we make emotional decisions. Use the data. Make business decisions based on data. Don't tolerate poor member behavior. We really saw an uptick in poor member behavior during COVID. People between the politics and just frustration with rules and mask We just zero tolerance. you know zero tolerance, for it's super hard to keep great people And if, if members are not treating the employees well, i don't know if that's the type of member you want to have at your club. So those are the things don't don't be afraid to. Don't kick the can down the road. Take responsibility, raise dues, do do the things you need to do to keep the club viable for a long time. I think some boards you know you're, it's tough, you're, you're the president of the club, but your best friends are the members and your peers. So you don't want to say, hey, by the way, i'm going to cost you $500 more a year, but that's, you know, that's part of the duty. Don't kick the can down the road. Hold people accountable for their actions. Those are the things that I would say we have to do better at in the in the years to come.

Speaker 1: 43:42

And then on the flip side, you know things are always changing. What are some good things, some cool things, some unique things? you see clubs doing that maybe other ones aren't that they should be trying to do, Like what are some unique little, I don't know.

Speaker 2: 43:54

Oh yeah, no, i mean, i think clubs have become so creative. You watch clubs doing things online, like you talked about taking your show online during COVID, doing golf lessons online and cooking lessons online, like you know, to go food to go. Food became a part of the mainstream now for club space. Keep that going. I think great clubs are constantly coming up with new ways to engage with their younger members, keeping the young kids happy, i think. I think don't be afraid to take risk. I don't be afraid to try something that you've never done before. If it fails, what's the worst that happens? You know, i always, i always used to say Coca-Cola changed their recipe and you know, and it was a big debacle. But guess what? Coca-Cola is still around and it cost. Did it cost them a million, hundreds of millions dollars Maybe, but they're still here. Nothing we do will get to that level. We're not. We're not launching, launching rockets here. Let's try some things. You know be risky. I think the best managers in the country are constantly putting themselves in environments where they could see new things around food, beverage, golf, and bringing it back to their club and trying to introduce it in one way or the other. You know, i think the things that I'm most proud of that I've seen over the last year is there's been a huge shift well, probably a couple of years now, but the amount of money clubs are spending in their employee year is now For so many years. The locker rooms and the restrooms and the break rooms were just terrible, you know, and I grew up in some of them. And now the amount of money I mean some of these employee areas in my old club, mediterra Carmen what he's done there, joel Livinggood and Interlochen up in Minneapolis I mean some of these areas are just exceptional. You know, they look like Delta lounges. I'm like now, this is a place where I could, i could really dig and work in, and I think those are the kind of folks that are fighting for those dollars for their employees that are going to benefit, because at the end of the day, this is an employee business, this is a people. We're in the people business And if, if you want a great club, you've got to have great staff And if you want to have great staff, you got to treat them really really well.

Speaker 1: 46:12

I think it was a Crandell in his plutonium leadership. I think he, i think it was him one of the clubs he went to and he he was working at. One of the first things he did as a general manager was revamped the whole staff area Because it was just like a trocious And I guess, like a lot of the people maybe weren't the happiest. But he's like how can you have this amazing service and facility here for our people? Then you go behind a door and like it. That doesn't make sense.

Speaker 2: 46:38

Yeah, i remember going to this gentleman. We were doing a search, they had removed their general manager and he kept saying ladies and gentlemen serving ladies and gentlemen. And I said and I just said I interrupted the meeting I said if you? I said, can we take a walk 30 seconds from here? I said your employee lounge is literally a pipe and drape little carve out of a room where the other half they're doing the dishes and all the chairs and tables were that are broken, the broken tables and chairs from the ballroom. That's the employee lounge. I said if you want ladies and gentlemen serving ladies and gentlemen, then you have to treat them like ladies and gentlemen. And as much as he didn't like that and that was probably 15 years Yeah, it was a long time ago, but I just remember he was so hard on the staff and I was like, well, you might want to take a look, you know, behind the curtain a little bit to really see how you're treating them, because that that that's reflective of how they're going to treat you.

Speaker 1: 47:40

Mr Wallace, i want to thank you so much for hopping on with us. Today Really means the world. I hope you have a fantastic day.

Speaker 2: 47:47

And where can people find out more about Oh yeah well, if CLA is is a wwwclubleadershipalliancecom and obviously KK and W is wwwkk the word and wcom, So hit either of those websites. You can find both groups on either website and all of our services were here. We love the industry and love giving back to it.

Speaker 1: 48:14

And you're also very active on LinkedIn also. We are indeed All right, sir. You have a fantastic day and we will talk to you soon. Thank you so much, tom, for being on. I look forward to bringing you on again in the future. You are so much fun to talk to. If you're interested linking up with Tom, head on over to LinkedIn Tom Wallace. Thomas Wallace will also put a link in the show notes below. If you're enjoying the content, really really appreciate anything you can do to help out. So give, whatever platform you are on right now, give a subscribe, give a rating. We really appreciate it. Even if you want to pass this along to somebody else, someone who might enjoy the listen, we appreciate that as well. And always, if you're in the market, please give some of our show partners, sponsors and friends an opportunity, because without them, this would not be possible. Hope you all have a fantastic, whatever time of day you're listening to. Stay well until next time.