Aug. 18, 2023

280: The Transformative Power of Summer Camps w/ Dan Schmitz

Craving a nostalgic trip down memory lane? Join us as we reconnect with our childhood memories and journey through the magical world of summer camps with Dan Schmitz of KE Camps. Swapping stories from our time at sleepaway camps in the Poconos, Pennsylvania, we journey through a realm where children learn, grow, and step outside their comfort zones.

The ever-evolving culture of camps is a fascinating journey, and who better to guide us through it than Dan Schmitz. After expanding KE Camps from 14 to a whopping 250 in just 14 years, Dan gives us an insider look into the camp industry. From exploring unique camp activities to managing staffing and training challenges, we dig deep into the transformative impact of camps. We also discuss the financial and logistical aspects of organizing a summer camp and what KE Camps offers to clubs beyond just camp management.

Our chat extends to the trend of country clubs evolving into family-focused social spaces - more than just golf courses. We also discuss how camps help kids foster friendships, develop social skills, and explore different interests and age groups. On the club side, we examine the benefits of offering camps and the considerations involved, including pricing, indoor space, and staff training. So, sit back, relax and let's take a stroll through the world of summer camps, their significance, and how KE Camps can transform your club into a haven of summer fun.

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01:10 - The Importance of Summer Camps

11:37 - The Magic of Camp

18:44 - Camp Activities and Staffing Challenges

26:01 - Staff Training Challenges in Camps

32:01 - Camp Activities and Club Considerations

37:21 - Pricing and Organizing Summer Camps

46:39 - Enjoying and Recommending K E Camps

WEBVTT

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Hey everybody, welcome back to Private Club Radio.

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I'm your host, denny Corby.

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This episode hits really close to home for me because we are going to talk with Dan Schminz of KE Camps.

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I was a very big summer camp person, as was he, and KE Camps is all about bringing the summer camp experience to your club and I know how valuable a summer camp can be and I'm excited because we're both from the same neck of the woods.

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He's in Jersey, I'm in PA and there's so many camps in this area and he and I just chat about that and just talk about the importance of camps.

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We talk about camp experiences.

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We talk about discussing the evolution of camp culture, both of our own journeys in the camp world and how it impacted both of our lives.

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All in all, we talk about the ins and outs of what it takes to bring a summer camp to your club.

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I had a really fun, enjoyable conversation.

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So please, welcome from KE Camps, dan Schminz.

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So remind me, you were in Jersey and you worked at a camp.

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What was the origin of Easter?

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Because I know I just found the camp and I can't remember what your camp background was.

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Yeah, I was playing college tennis for a little while and wanted to kind of continue to work in tennis and with children.

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And my friend and I saw a newspaper ad in our college newspaper to work with kids in the summer and play sports and I was like, well, that's intriguing.

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And so we applied for this kind of random job and it was through an agency, and so we got a phone call from Trail's End, which is a high-end camp in the Poconos, as you know.

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It's so weird hearing these names come out.

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I haven't heard these names for years, but it was such a common thing.

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Sorry if you see me no it's fine, I was 19.

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We got a phone call three days later and we did a 15-minute interview.

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We got hired basically on the spot.

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We were like what is this?

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And we were two kids from Podunk, minnesota, and now I don't think I had left the state at that point, besides, like a family vacation to Florida or Colorado.

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And now my buddy and I just packed up his little Mazda truck and drove out to the Poconos not knowing what was happening.

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And, funny story there's a trailer park called Trail's End 30 Minutes from the camp, and so we pulled in and we're like what is?

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happening?

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What is happening here?

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I don't understand.

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And the brochure and the VHS tape they sent us in a lake and they had all these things.

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And we're like what is happening right now?

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Some guy comes out and he may have had a shock and I'm not sure he's like what do you identify yourself?

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We're camp counselors, you walk the other trails.

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And we're like, yes, we do, yes, we do.

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Welcome to the Poconos.

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The Booty with the Poconos.

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So that was our first experience and then, yeah, I mean, it's just from there, just fell in love with working with kids and like there was something about like the community you know, sleep away camp.

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There's something about the community that's built there and kind of you know the culture of everything which is really special and that's, you know, that was kind of what we wanted, for KE camps was like, hey, how can we get the sleep away feeling where everyone's fallen in the last day because they've made these amazing connections?

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How can we get that in a day camp country club nonetheless?

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So you can get it at major day camps a little more, but how can you bring those traditions to, you know, a camp that's not very traditional?

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And so that was kind of, I guess, the impetus of KE camps and what we wanted to do, which was kind of cool.

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So, yeah, 10 years, 10 years in the sleep away world, which was just an awesome experience.

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But it's a lifestyle.

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Which camps was that?

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It was at Trail's End and Chestnut Lake, and Chestnut Lake was there was a new camp which was meant to be a session camp for Trail's End and it butted up next to it.

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It was a former, you know, like Hasidic Jewish camp hardcore that Trail's End purchased to make the session camp, so it was pretty cool.

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So I got to be the first assistant director at a new camp, which was a cool experience too.

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I was trying to recruit kids.

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My cousins went there because we just needed campers.

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So Well, a for people listening.

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I don't know if this is going to even make it in, but yeah, like the Poconos of Pennsylvania.

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I don't want to call it like the camp capital, but there's so many camps in this, like what?

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two hour radius that Wayne County alone, world.

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Yeah, it's crazy.

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I don't quote me in this, but I think Wayne County, pennsylvania, I think there's 120 sleep away camps in the county.

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I could be wrong, but I think that's the number.

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I can be way wrong, but I'm pretty pretty sure it's just the mecca of sleep away camps.

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Then you further north you get, you know, you, you know Hampshire, maine, some beautiful camps up there obviously.

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But but yeah.

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So the camps in the Poconos, that's so funny.

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Oh my God, I'm done.

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There's a lot, there's a lot.

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This 120, that doesn't surprise me Could be 60.

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That doesn't surprise me.

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Maybe I'll make a big no, but that's still a lot of camps.

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Yeah, and I would maybe assume people, the clubs in Florida might actually have some of these owners and stuff in there, Because a lot of them are like our snowbirds too.

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Yep, they hang out in Florida, do all the Florida stuff.

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Then come time for camp, the weather breaks they go up north.

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Yeah, it's a new trend actually with the camp owners in the past 10 years.

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A lot of them now reside in Florida and head up north, and there's a lot more campers from Florida now too, especially on the east side of Florida.

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Interesting.

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Predominally Jewish.

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You know Boko Raton and those areas.

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Oh yeah, as the sleepaway camps used to be predominantly Jewish and now they're, you know, it's kind of.

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You know, I guess the numbers are getting higher of non-Jewish families attending sleepaway camps and that's why the session camp was kind of made for those families who we would call like a mixed marriage.

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Like my wife is Jewish, I'm not, and so a lot of those parents were like wait a minute, you know, my wife grew up going to eight weeks of camp and didn't go to camp, so they wanted those session camps as part of like a.

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Yeah well, my first night at Trail's End I'm from Minnesota, in like this farm country where I graduate with 550 kids and not one Jewish person in Elk River, minnesota.

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I didn't even know who it was.

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And so the first night was Shabbat and they light these candles and there's these big loaves of bread and they start saying prayers.

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And I leaned over to my co-counselor and he was from England and I said what the hell's going on?

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Is this a cult?

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And he goes it's a Jewish camp.

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I'm like, oh, I've never met a Jewish friend.

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This is great.

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So, by the end of the camp.

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I'm doing the prayers, I'm leading prayers, I'm eating the challah.

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I'm going crazy.

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So first you go to a trailer park, yep and then when you finally get to camp, yeah, I thought it was a cult.

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It was like good cult.

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I just was unaware of the religion.

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I just it was, you know in that time of.

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Minnesota.

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It was either your Catholic or your Lutheran.

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Which one are you.

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And you know, it's just a small town mentality of just not understanding the world and not being worldly at that time, which was really funny and I look back and just laugh.

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I think I went to camps.

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I think I went to Pocono Ridge for about eight, nine years, I think it was almost like 10.

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Wow, and I was the only one who lived so close, like Scranton's, 45 minutes away.

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So we find out about this great camp.

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Everyone's getting busted.

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People are from all over.

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Like where are you from?

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Like, oh, 20 minutes away.

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They're like how'd you get here?

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Wait, wait, wait, I'm going to get my hair and strom you off.

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Well, it was great though, because, like they didn't have to overnight package it, they just like showed up on time, and if I really needed something, my mom just couldn't like drop it off, like it wasn't a big deal.

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But I was afraid to leave my parents, and this was just supposed to be like a day camp, and I went for like one day.

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For me, tom was awesome, hooked it up, was like you know, you guys are so close, whatever.

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And then I went there the first day and I was like I'm staying, I can't be going home.

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Yeah, you're like FOMO with the other kids are sleeping in the bunk right.

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Oh, that's pretty cool.

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You just make those connections and it is like a camp thing.

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And then from there I started off at four weeks, then I went to Camp Pocono Ridge.

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I did six weeks too.

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I think some have like different structures like four, six, eight, and then I also would go to Magic Camp.

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So I would leave Sleepaway Camp to go to like a Sleepaway Serious Magic Camp.

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So camp was in my blood.

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So what was your favorite part about camps?

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About the Sleepaway Camps.

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Yeah, I mean, I think it changed over the years.

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I think my first summer probably if I'm being completely honest as a 19-year-old probably going out to the bars with my friends, right, like you meet all these amazing people from around the world, really A lot of counselors on J1 visas and all those things and it was just a cool experience for, like a farm boy from Minnesota, to really branch out.

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And I think that summer I spent focusing on the wrong thing when I was 19.

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I was maturing, so I think probably that's how it started and I wanted to return because a lot of my friends were coming back and I think it wasn't until that around maybe Christmas or the start of the new year.

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The following, after my first season of camp, where they sent out like a video yearbook and you watch it and you're like, wow, I really formed a lot of relationships.

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I know a lot of these kids in this video and it was such a great thing to get.

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And, strategically, by the camps, it was great.

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They make you want to come back to get this tape.

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You're like, oh man, this is so great.

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Camp was so fun.

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You don't remember the ninth day in a row.

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It was 100 degrees and you're sweating and kids are screaming at you and throwing things at you, but so the first year.

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I think it was the staff.

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Yeah, I think from there I think I clicked and I got to work with the teenagers that second summer and really use my athletic abilities and coaching abilities and got to just literally play with the kids Like I was playing basketball, I was playing baseball with the kids playing tennis, and then formed these amazing relationships with the kids.

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And then from my second year I was like this is something I want to do.

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So I became a teacher so that I could work at camp, which is kind of interesting.

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I chose a profession so that I could work seven weeks at a sleep, wake up all the time and said I want to miss out.

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I just loved it so much.

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And then eventually, when I became full time, started the new camp next to Trail's End.

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I met my wife at a camp conference and she was working at an all girls camp in New Hampshire and yeah, that's kind of where it started with KE camps.

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We had an opportunity to purchase the company through a guy we knew and they had about 20 camps at the time and he said you guys run all anything that touches Atlantic Ocean you should run.

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So it was 14 camps.

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It was the first summer we were working out of our apartment in the Upper West Side in New York.

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I was working.

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I could touch her from my desk.

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In her desk she worked at a tiny desk.

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I was on the kitchen table.

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We were walking packages to FedEx.

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We used our coat closet as our file cabinet kept our coats and our neighbor's place, and she smoked so everything that we had.

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Her coats reeked like marble lights and yeah, man, that was it, Not even the good stuff.

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Yeah, not even the good stuff.

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And so that first summer was crazy.

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So the 14 camps and then the previous owner said you guys are just a lot better at this, you might take, you know, run the company and eventually bought them out because we don't want to pay a royalty.

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And yeah, now this summer we'll have about 250 camps.

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So we've grown quite a bit in the 14 years that we've had it and it's been our baby and it's been fun.

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And yeah, you know, sleep away camp is amazing.

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But they came so I get to have a life with my children and I know it doesn't.

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You know I'm not there until October running off-season events and I don't own the property, which is really nice, and so it's become.

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It's a different lifestyle, but it's great.

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We love it.

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What's got you excited recently about camp?

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Well, for our company in particular, I think there's this resurgence not resurgence, I shouldn't say that there is an emergence of families coming to country clubs where you know, when we purchased the company 14 years ago, it was still sort of the old boys network at a lot of places.

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Some places were turning over at that point.

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But I think, you know, in the last five years especially and I think COVID really escalated or accelerated this was the families are just looking for something to do and country clubs are becoming less about golf.

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And you still have your courses, you know those major golf courses that are just always going to be just golf.

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But I think a lot of country clubs are turning into just these family-focused places to go that feel safe, where you know the staff and private resorts.

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Yeah, that's what it feels like.

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It feels like a sleek away camp for adults and that's what people want.

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I mean, your egg is like even pickleball now and Padel, all of these new things that are coming on.

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These are all country club sports essentially, or they're going to be, and I think this is what adults crave.

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I mean, I belong to a country club and I love it.

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I could spend my summer there and not leave.

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It's so great and I think these younger people are getting into these clubs and there's so many kids now and that's got me excited for our future for K-E camps is that these kids have to do something in the summer and why not have a camp at your club?

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And it's got me excited because just the growth that I think we're able to have a great product for these clubs.

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You know, I think that's why I got so excited when I met you at conference was I just know how cool camp was for me.

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But then, looking back, just how much it helped just kind of because I was a was I still am an awkward, weird, weird person but it definitely helped me come out of my shell because you're almost forced to a bit, because you're it's, you know it's unlike school where you know you have to sit and watch and you know, do whatever camp is the same amount of time.

00:15:34.615 --> 00:15:47.739
You're like in it, like you can be a kid, like you can do stuff, and camp allows you to be a different kid too, right, like I think the magic of sleep away or even day camp is that in school you're this person.

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You've almost been pigeonholed as you know the kid who's great at math, or the athlete, or the actor, and that camp you can be all those things and you can kind of get a fresh start with different kids and different age groups, and I think that's the magic of a campus.

00:16:05.091 --> 00:16:23.754
Yeah, no, it's so, so true, and just because, like, once you get there, like you can have your like little friends like you, you know, in school like you have to like sit where, like you're sat here, it's like, no, I, even if it's an activity that they don't want to do, is but I can still go over and be with Frank or, like you know, I can still go be with my like friends as we like learn and do all this stuff.

00:16:25.451 --> 00:16:25.753
What was?

00:16:25.773 --> 00:16:28.198
your favorite activity back back at camp.

00:16:28.519 --> 00:16:29.402
Oh, besides tennis.

00:16:29.402 --> 00:16:50.543
So I was never a camper but my favorite activity at camp Well, the favorite, like you know, multi day activity was always a camp Olympics at the end of the summer, where you know you were, you were, yeah, they chose like three captains, counselors, and I was lucky enough to be chosen to be the captain of one of the teams and ate a whole pine for another camp and all that fun stuff.

00:16:50.543 --> 00:16:57.796
There's something about like the spirit of a three day activity for kids and for the staff.

00:16:57.796 --> 00:17:03.741
You know, gets everyone excited again and it's towards the end of camp and it's a great way to end camp.

00:17:03.741 --> 00:17:07.986
But individual activity I used to love European handball.

00:17:07.986 --> 00:17:14.152
I think that was something cool that I'd never before and at my camp it was a really rough game.

00:17:14.152 --> 00:17:19.140
You were able to essentially hit people, not punch them, but, like you know, check.

00:17:19.881 --> 00:17:21.523
It was a fun game.

00:17:21.523 --> 00:17:43.670
It was obviously a big draw at the camp I was at, but another individual one that I really loved is called Roperon, where they had it was part of Olympics and there was three teams and there was 10 foot high holes with a rope across and all day the oldest campers got to collect wood and then they built a fire and the first one to burn the rope was the weather.

00:17:43.670 --> 00:17:45.650
It was fairly dangerous.

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You know 10 foot high ropes, right?

00:17:48.670 --> 00:17:49.050
I mean these.

00:17:49.050 --> 00:17:53.798
These fires are 15 to 20 feet high and there's kids around and like what is happening.

00:17:53.798 --> 00:17:55.942
Like you know, this was pretty crazy.

00:17:57.373 --> 00:18:00.650
When you look back to like some of the stuff you're like this would never never today.

00:18:00.650 --> 00:18:04.739
Yeah, this would never fly at all Riflery.

00:18:04.778 --> 00:18:06.323
We used to have a riflery, I mean remember that.

00:18:06.323 --> 00:18:09.830
It's still in Texas and they have it in Texas Still.

00:18:09.830 --> 00:18:10.713
I'm like what is happening?

00:18:12.271 --> 00:18:17.423
Riflery was like the boys' bunks, boys like nine and 10 was behind right.

00:18:17.423 --> 00:18:21.358
I mean like, not like right behind it was up, but like it was right there.

00:18:21.690 --> 00:18:23.675
So, like you know, you're back in your bunks.

00:18:23.935 --> 00:18:34.726
They're the temple, that's not pink, it was boys, and then the pool was also seems about right to like the left.

00:18:34.726 --> 00:18:35.949
It was right to the left.

00:18:35.949 --> 00:18:36.650
Makes sense.

00:18:36.650 --> 00:18:39.378
So how are the days structured?

00:18:39.378 --> 00:18:44.650
Like at like, at like your camps, like, how did you take the you know whole experience?

00:18:44.650 --> 00:18:46.670
How do you condense it into a day camp?

00:18:46.670 --> 00:18:49.951
Is it like because I know great questions sleepaway camp Like?

00:18:49.951 --> 00:18:52.670
You got to like you had like group activities, but then you got to like pick some stuff.

00:18:52.670 --> 00:18:55.561
So how did you, you know what?

00:18:55.561 --> 00:18:57.127
What are your camps?

00:18:57.127 --> 00:18:57.670
We try to keep it simple.

00:18:58.070 --> 00:18:58.573
I mean there's.

00:18:58.573 --> 00:19:00.599
We have, you know, having 250 camps.

00:19:00.599 --> 00:19:02.416
We have camps of every size.

00:19:02.416 --> 00:19:04.436
We have a camp that's got 150 kids a week.

00:19:05.152 --> 00:19:07.640
I have camps that have 12 or 15 kids a week.

00:19:07.640 --> 00:19:10.384
So so a you know you go to a large camp.

00:19:10.384 --> 00:19:18.463
You got to break it down by age group a lot or by likes and dislikes and having some electives and things like that.

00:19:18.463 --> 00:19:25.318
But most of our partners will give us some golf and tennis if they have those sports with their junior and assistant pro or their pro.

00:19:25.318 --> 00:19:28.670
So we kind of start there with the amount of golf and tennis.

00:19:28.670 --> 00:19:54.461
We swim every day at the club pool, but from there we wanted to make sure that we not only had things like arts and crafts and you know we do like food, like iron chef competitions and cupcake wars and why, oh, we wanted to make sure we had STEM projects, because that's the new, or, steve, now, it's kind of the new thing but we also want to make sure that and this is where the sleepaway thing comes in is that we, we like to have traditional activities once a week.

00:19:54.461 --> 00:20:03.336
So things like our wacky Wednesday, which sounds simple, but it's something that is in our program that the kids can identify that hey, it's Wednesday, it's wacky Wednesday, we're getting dressed up.

00:20:03.336 --> 00:20:04.002
There's a theme today.

00:20:04.002 --> 00:20:06.670
My favorite is our thankful Thursday.

00:20:06.931 --> 00:20:14.442
About five years ago we started doing community service projects and it's been just awesome because we'll choose.

00:20:14.442 --> 00:20:16.650
You know we have a span of 12 weeks of camp.

00:20:16.650 --> 00:20:23.276
So our early starts, you know, like in Nebraska and end of May, and our latest goes in Nantucket to the end of August.

00:20:23.276 --> 00:20:28.922
But we choose a non-for-profit each week to our campers to go and work for.

00:20:28.922 --> 00:20:35.363
So this has become, you know, just a fun project for our whole full-time team to give back.

00:20:35.363 --> 00:20:43.916
So we do things like dog toys for dog shelters and our best and I know that you have a dog so I know that hits home for you.

00:20:45.172 --> 00:20:47.137
But my favorite is our Alex's Lemonade Stand.

00:20:47.137 --> 00:20:49.195
It's Kids for Cancer Research.

00:20:49.195 --> 00:21:01.662
We usually pick a week in July where we have a lot of camps open that week and the kids will run a Lemonade Stand and the members will donate a dollar, $10, $20, $100, sometimes it's crazy.

00:21:01.662 --> 00:21:08.196
They get a nice letter about who Alex is and the foundation and what it's all about and our campers get to really learn.

00:21:08.196 --> 00:21:11.105
You know these are kids who belong to country clubs.

00:21:11.105 --> 00:21:24.731
They're great kids, they're affluent and it's so awesome for those kids to learn how to give back at a young age because you know these are likely going to be affluent people, you know, from kids to people and it's so.

00:21:24.731 --> 00:21:33.608
We think it's really important at our clubs specifically that are operated at country clubs, for our kids to learn, and so it's a big deal for us.

00:21:33.608 --> 00:21:36.885
Yeah, we were recognized by Alex's Lemonade Stand.

00:21:36.905 --> 00:21:43.670
It's one of the top contributors and I think last year we maybe donated like $50,000 or something like that to them, which is great.

00:21:43.670 --> 00:21:59.650
And what's more heartwarming is, every year we'll get envelope from a mom or a dad from across the country saying, hey, my kid loved it so much, he did his own Lemonade Stand at home and we wanted you to have to have this $36 that he raised.

00:21:59.650 --> 00:22:02.057
It was just like that's where it's, like.

00:22:02.057 --> 00:22:02.898
You know that we're doing.

00:22:02.898 --> 00:22:06.670
What we're doing is really hitting home for some kids, which is which means a lot.

00:22:06.670 --> 00:22:13.670
It means more than anything for us, because we you know our full-time team of 15, we're here in our office and you know we're fielding calls.

00:22:13.670 --> 00:22:26.286
We're doing kind of annoying stuff sometimes with insurance, and so when we get things like that, it kind of brings us back to why we're doing this in the first place, which sometimes you can.

00:22:26.286 --> 00:22:30.670
It's easy to forget sometimes when you're in an office and we'd rather be out with the kids.

00:22:30.670 --> 00:22:32.416
So those things made a lot for us.

00:22:34.372 --> 00:22:43.763
So you know, I know how important and how much of a difference really good counselors and staff made.

00:22:43.763 --> 00:22:47.393
How do you find really good people for year camps?

00:22:47.480 --> 00:22:56.007
Hey, I tell you what it's been difficult the last few years with COVID, and just you know it's hit the staffing market hard.

00:22:56.007 --> 00:23:14.022
The first few years it was, you know, a lot of these younger kids were getting government help and didn't feel the need or were too nervous to work, and that turned into hey, taco Bell is paying $20 an hour and all of a sudden your payroll is up 60%.

00:23:14.022 --> 00:23:17.852
And then your raising prices and parents saying why are you raising prices are big?

00:23:17.852 --> 00:23:20.224
Well, because payroll is up 60%.

00:23:20.224 --> 00:23:34.852
For us, though, you know, staff or everything, meaning we could have the greatest product in a box that you can imagine, but once camp starts, if our staff aren't excellent, then camp isn't excellent.

00:23:34.852 --> 00:23:39.672
So you know it's difficult these days more difficult to find people.

00:23:39.799 --> 00:23:41.584
We're finding, thank God, in 23,.

00:23:41.584 --> 00:24:02.308
It's a little easier this year to find staff, but we have an amazing system here where we pay a lot of money for it, where we type it in zip code essentially, and it kind of kicks out every staffing website there is with colleges and everything, and we're able to find a good amount of candidates that way.

00:24:02.308 --> 00:24:09.271
We hire teachers as our directors, and then we typically do an in-person orientation with those people.

00:24:09.271 --> 00:24:18.799
So this year we're doing orientations in Chicago and New Jersey, san Francisco, austin, texas, trying to get everyone in person that we can, as our camp directors and the rest of them.

00:24:18.799 --> 00:24:22.990
We have a great online training like webinars, things like that.

00:24:22.990 --> 00:24:45.281
So our training process is really it's gotten pretty crazy since COVID because we were forced to make a change, which is good, but it's pretty intense and there's a lot involved and it's something that other clubs can't do, that when they run their own camp, they're not training their staff like we're training our staff, and I think that's another reason that we're doing so well.

00:24:48.599 --> 00:24:50.205
Because I can imagine it's.

00:24:50.205 --> 00:24:58.112
You're not just trying to find somebody like, you're trying to find a very specific personality and a very specific thing.

00:24:58.112 --> 00:25:12.430
It's not like I'm not saying anything bad about Taco Bell, but the barrier to entry might just be a little bit lower there than with Right, you need more qualifications to work at a camp than you likely would at Taco.

00:25:12.509 --> 00:25:14.022
Bell Doesn't mean Taco.

00:25:14.044 --> 00:25:14.505
Bell's bad.

00:25:14.525 --> 00:25:14.786
Correct.

00:25:14.786 --> 00:25:19.269
No, I think you get Taco Bell at midnight when I was 19.

00:25:21.821 --> 00:25:25.170
But there was not a Taco Bell at 19 when you were near trails.

00:25:25.651 --> 00:25:27.819
No, not there there was a Wendy's in McDonald's?

00:25:27.819 --> 00:25:29.184
Yeah, that's true.

00:25:29.184 --> 00:25:40.108
No, but I think you make a good point in that if we have a camp and we need staff and only 12 apply, you're not just hiring.

00:25:40.108 --> 00:25:51.250
Our philosophy is keep looking and if we push the limits a little bit, we'll wait until we find the right people and sometimes, once in a while, it'll come back to bite us.

00:25:51.250 --> 00:25:53.904
We'll have to figure out.

00:25:53.904 --> 00:25:56.330
We'll have to spend more money to find that person, and that's okay.

00:25:56.330 --> 00:26:01.769
But even so, we'll find these great people and we'll interview them.

00:26:01.769 --> 00:26:02.451
Three interviews.

00:26:02.451 --> 00:26:05.047
They'll meet the club and the club says this is an amazing person.

00:26:05.047 --> 00:26:08.145
They get to orientation and they're unbelievable at orientation.

00:26:08.145 --> 00:26:10.191
And then they get to camp and they're a dud.

00:26:10.191 --> 00:26:12.346
You're like, how does this happen?

00:26:12.346 --> 00:26:16.809
Inevitably every year it happens, and they go into the clubs too.

00:26:18.079 --> 00:26:19.644
We get the blame because there are staff.

00:26:19.644 --> 00:26:24.789
These are things that we've learned over the years and we've learned that way.

00:26:24.789 --> 00:26:27.907
Every camp we need to hire a person that could be a director.

00:26:27.907 --> 00:26:30.746
That's something that's just part of our protocol.

00:26:30.746 --> 00:26:34.969
Now they don't know it, but they're a backup director.

00:26:34.969 --> 00:26:36.461
We have an awesome.

00:26:36.461 --> 00:26:42.972
It's almost like a hit to be trained as a director in four hours.

00:26:42.972 --> 00:26:43.513
If we need it.

00:26:43.513 --> 00:26:50.534
We've come up with all these great things because we have to lack a better term.

00:26:50.534 --> 00:26:59.132
We have an itchy trigger finger, I suppose, and that's probably a whole term to use when it comes to staff, because we can't allow you to be there if you're not great.

00:26:59.132 --> 00:27:04.221
We have about six weeks to do and press these members in the clubs and you can't have a week.

00:27:04.240 --> 00:27:10.728
Staffers Slow to hire, quick to fire Every year, inevitably you get hey, this person's on their phone.

00:27:10.728 --> 00:27:13.005
Oh my God, we have a no phone policy.

00:27:13.005 --> 00:27:17.321
Do you work with them or do you let them go?

00:27:17.321 --> 00:27:21.163
It's tough, it's not, staffing is just.

00:27:21.163 --> 00:27:23.388
Sometimes I feel like we're a staffing company.

00:27:23.388 --> 00:27:27.107
That's not what we want, but it's a bear.

00:27:27.107 --> 00:27:29.201
It's tough, but we manage.

00:27:29.201 --> 00:27:31.949
We've never had to run a camp because we didn't have staff.

00:27:31.949 --> 00:27:33.761
It's just.

00:27:33.761 --> 00:27:40.463
My staffing team sometimes are here until midnight on a Wednesday in the summer looking at all of our options.

00:27:40.463 --> 00:27:45.788
They're pretty creative, they're great Limitations force creativity.

00:27:46.429 --> 00:27:47.089
Young scottles, it is.

00:27:47.089 --> 00:27:47.832
That's right.

00:27:47.832 --> 00:27:51.099
There's like three, like one Myers in a row.

00:27:51.099 --> 00:27:52.022
I was like I got to stop this.

00:27:52.022 --> 00:27:55.726
What age ranges does the camps?

00:27:55.726 --> 00:27:56.627
What's like the youngest?

00:27:56.627 --> 00:27:57.710
And then how old does it?

00:27:57.710 --> 00:27:58.900
So?

00:27:58.920 --> 00:28:02.429
normally our youngest we take is four and we have a few camps where we allow three.

00:28:02.429 --> 00:28:08.085
We prefer to start at five, what we call.

00:28:08.085 --> 00:28:10.759
Most of our issues happen with four-year-olds.

00:28:10.759 --> 00:28:15.050
It's 85% of our issues and some of those are great.

00:28:15.050 --> 00:28:23.785
We call our code brown, which is a pool issue, and so that's not fun when a four-year-old does that, because they have to clear the pool and the club doesn't.

00:28:23.785 --> 00:28:36.145
So we try to start at five and at 10 or 11, although some camps go to 12, just because those kids at that age they need more than what we can offer and a lot of our clubs don't have fields.

00:28:36.145 --> 00:28:39.367
It's a small footprint so it's hard.

00:28:39.367 --> 00:28:43.071
So typically I would say like five to 10 is kind of our sweet spot.

00:28:44.957 --> 00:29:01.425
I just find this like fascinating, because I did work at one summer camp doing magic so I got to like teach at a day camp in New York but they had a magic program and the funny part about that was there was probably 10% that like really wanted to be there.

00:29:01.425 --> 00:29:03.940
The rest were like, oh, soccer was full.

00:29:03.940 --> 00:29:05.945
Okay, I guess we gotta we'll go put it.

00:29:05.945 --> 00:29:07.434
Oh you sprained your ankle.

00:29:07.434 --> 00:29:10.324
Why don't you go sit in magic for two days, like it's true?

00:29:11.256 --> 00:29:12.137
It's a very niche.

00:29:12.137 --> 00:29:14.183
It's a very niche activity right Magic.

00:29:15.355 --> 00:29:20.962
But but like it was like a fun thing because, like you did see the kids who, like, maybe weren't as like hit, but then, like, get into it.

00:29:20.962 --> 00:29:30.775
You see the ones who you know, the awkward ones, who maybe, like you know they weren't good at soccer or baseball, but you put them in here and they can, like, actually excel in what they're cool for, like that.

00:29:31.155 --> 00:29:38.742
Well, that's what camp's all about Just like doing activities that you just maybe don't know you like yet, and that's why camp is great too.

00:29:38.742 --> 00:29:41.643
You just dabble and find something you're great at.

00:29:42.795 --> 00:29:47.602
So let's say, like I have a kid, I don't want one, but that's a word.

00:29:47.602 --> 00:29:55.086
What would like, what would a day be like for this little like monster?

00:29:55.086 --> 00:29:57.262
Like what should I expect them to come home?

00:29:57.262 --> 00:30:00.463
Like they're like eight, nine, like what are they going to come home?

00:30:00.463 --> 00:30:03.079
And like tell me I mean, okay, that was camp.

00:30:03.181 --> 00:30:04.104
Hopefully they come well.

00:30:04.104 --> 00:30:11.124
Usually when you ask the kid that, they say good, right, yep, you can't ask the one, you can't have the one word answer.

00:30:11.124 --> 00:30:22.605
So what was your favorite part about camp was a great one, but yeah, I mean so A, they're going to probably get a golfer tennis that day in swimming and then they're going to get bang on the day.

00:30:22.605 --> 00:30:25.500
You know they're probably going to take home an arts and crafts project.

00:30:25.500 --> 00:30:26.980
We'd like to do a take home project.

00:30:26.980 --> 00:30:29.102
We know parents like to see what their child's doing.

00:30:29.102 --> 00:30:35.525
Prior to we'll have sent the schedule to the parents, so you know moms and dads will be all over that looking at what their child's doing that day.

00:30:35.525 --> 00:30:41.017
They might have done a high dice shirt that day, or they may have done an apple elevator and stem.

00:30:42.734 --> 00:30:52.739
They started the day with our hello camp with like a weather report and sports the joke of the day and the ended camp with our goodbye camp and, you know, saying something nice about another camper.

00:30:52.739 --> 00:30:53.863
Or it was a Friday.

00:30:53.863 --> 00:30:55.500
We have our smile band ceremony.

00:30:55.500 --> 00:31:22.921
It's an acronym for sportsmanship, mindfulness, inclusion, leadership, enthusiasm, and every week either they do a scavenger on to find them or staff will just give each camper a bracelet and talk about camper, to make them feel good about themselves, and the hope is that they come home saying they made a friend, because I think in 15 years kids aren't going to remember the apple elevator stem project, but they will remember their buddy that they made at camp.

00:31:23.596 --> 00:31:36.680
And I think that's where everything that we go back to comes back to how to socialize and make friends with kids, because I have three little ones 10, eight and eight and you know they'd be on their screens all day.

00:31:36.680 --> 00:31:56.066
We allowed them and we don't allow electronics in our camps, and so we really try to teach socialization of kids, which is really a lost art for kids and that, you know, during this, during the school year, they're, they're so regimented and to be able to feel free a little bit and to be themselves and make a friend.

00:31:56.066 --> 00:32:01.903
I would hope that your child comes home and says I made a friend today and that's really what camp saw about first.

00:32:03.086 --> 00:32:10.886
Yeah, now, let's say, I'm a club and I'm thinking about, like, what does it look like for me?

00:32:10.886 --> 00:32:11.087
Now?

00:32:11.087 --> 00:32:23.515
I'm, you know, mr Joe, manager, a lot of those out there, ccm, cce, cde, nba, dr, dds.

00:32:25.799 --> 00:32:27.042
So what would it look like for?

00:32:27.203 --> 00:32:27.984
for the club.

00:32:27.984 --> 00:32:33.564
Yeah, so, like you know, let's just, oh my God, like this is cool, like to me, like I think it's the magic.

00:32:33.564 --> 00:32:37.585
Also, I like how things work on multiple levels.

00:32:37.585 --> 00:32:39.798
Yeah, so, you know, that's like the front of how.

00:32:39.798 --> 00:32:41.744
How does like back of house, like how does this work for them?

00:32:41.744 --> 00:32:45.905
Like a club point of view now, like, let's say, I'm Mr Joe manager, hey, this looks good.

00:32:45.905 --> 00:32:47.239
I might, might want to bring this in.

00:32:47.239 --> 00:32:48.363
What do I need to do?

00:32:48.363 --> 00:32:48.976
What's?

00:32:48.976 --> 00:32:50.721
Yeah, I mean it's a lot.

00:32:51.195 --> 00:33:11.028
So you know, the first thing that general manager will look at is compensation making sure and what's happened recently, in the last few years, is every general manager I speak through says, well, I want the amenity because we have a growing membership and it's getting younger, I want this amazing amenity.

00:33:11.028 --> 00:33:18.355
We don't really have the ability to do it ourselves in a way of registration, staffing meaning.

00:33:18.355 --> 00:33:20.644
But I have to break even.

00:33:20.644 --> 00:33:24.523
At worst I can't show my board a loss because we show the board a loss.

00:33:24.523 --> 00:33:27.820
Board sometimes sees things in black and white.

00:33:27.820 --> 00:33:41.340
A lot of attorneys, accountants on boards and they just see, hey, you took, you're in the red, and what they don't see is well, maybe member retention is higher because of camp and so it's hard to measure these things.

00:33:41.340 --> 00:33:41.997
Like there's.

00:33:41.997 --> 00:33:51.881
There's measurable things, there's immeasurable things, and one of the things I asked the GMs to look at is that family that registered for camp that didn't use the club last year very much.

00:33:51.881 --> 00:33:53.125
Maybe they were there six times.

00:33:53.125 --> 00:33:57.586
Now that they've gone to Kenya, take a look at what, how much they use the club this year.

00:33:57.586 --> 00:34:07.597
They think it's going to grow because the more that the kids are there, the more that the families are there picking up and dropping off, the more comfortable they're getting at their club and realizing that, hey, this is great amenity, we pay for this.

00:34:07.597 --> 00:34:16.237
We should be going to dinner more, going to the pool, more going to these kids activities, and now that my child knows some kids, maybe there'll be other kids they know from camping activities.

00:34:16.237 --> 00:34:17.836
So that's where we start.

00:34:17.836 --> 00:34:20.423
Is you know, how is it going to impact the club financially?

00:34:20.423 --> 00:34:28.181
And then we go from there to how will this impact the club with the pros, because the tennis and golf pros have a very busy schedule.

00:34:28.181 --> 00:34:34.501
We do ask for some golf and tennis, just a little bit, if we don't want to confuse ourselves with the junior programs.

00:34:34.501 --> 00:34:36.746
Every club has swim team, junior golf, junior tennis.

00:34:36.746 --> 00:34:38.641
We don't want to cannibalize those programs.

00:34:38.641 --> 00:34:47.161
We're trying to introduce our campers to those sports so that those pros can steal our campers, and so we're casting this wide net.

00:34:47.161 --> 00:35:01.784
Whereas if junior golf is casting a net, maybe they're attracting 15 or 20% of the members, kids we're going to attract 85% because we offer such a wide range of activities and then we dabble in golf and tennis so that they're exposed to these sports in a really fun way.

00:35:02.577 --> 00:35:03.802
So that's the second thing we look at.

00:35:03.802 --> 00:35:09.340
So finances, we look at what's the impact on your pros, and then indoor space is always an issue.

00:35:09.340 --> 00:35:10.184
Are you holding?

00:35:10.184 --> 00:35:16.907
There's a lot of revenue to be had out there by holding private events in Banquet and anywhere at the club.

00:35:16.907 --> 00:35:22.737
So we have to just make sure that there's space for kids to be safe, whether day is.

00:35:22.737 --> 00:35:23.420
Where can we be?

00:35:23.420 --> 00:35:31.800
So we look at the impacts and indoor space and that's really kind of where we start and that's how everything gets going.

00:35:32.536 --> 00:35:45.623
And we talk about the program, a lot of our camps, our takeovers, so we really have to figure out what they've done in the past, how we can show more value than what they've had in the past to make sure that can work for everyone.

00:35:45.623 --> 00:35:47.427
And so we start there.

00:35:47.427 --> 00:35:49.641