301: The Art of Branding in Private Clubs with Derek Sussner
Our guest, Derek Sussner, a sports branding expert, shares fascinating insights into what truly separates branding from marketing and why it matters, especially in the highly competitive world of private clubs and sports.
We delve into the world of golf and discuss the role of personal style in branding. We reference Seth Godin's perspective on the human aspect behind branding and explore how maintaining a cohesive brand image can boost your club's reputation. Wonder how this can be applied to your situation? Look no further than our conversation about a bachelor party's mismatched golf attire. Finally, Derek offers practical tips on leveraging social media for branding and reaching a wider audience. Connect with Derek on LinkedIn for more branding tips
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Hey everyone, welcome back to Private Club Radio. Whether you're a seasoned club professional or brand new to the industry, this is where we go over any and all things private club related golf club, country club, city club, yacht club, athletic club all the clubs. I'm your host, denny Corby. Welcome back. In this episode I'm talking with a friend of mine, derek Sussner, and he is a sports branding expert. They help organizations in the sports world rethink their brand to conquer the hearts, minds and markets of their audience, and something that's been coming up in some talks recently that I've had with friends, colleagues and other people is the difference between marketing and branding, and I really enjoy the work that Derek does and puts out, so I wanted to talk with him about it, about what the difference is between marketing and branding from a private club perspective and also from the sports world perspective. Branding isn't marketing, marketing isn't branding, and a brand is essential in a club because that's why, hopefully, people join our clubs is for the brand. I got connected to Derek through a friend of ours, sean Blile, and I remember first he showed me the work that they did with Lemon Bay and I went on. He was sending me some links and the work that Sussner did is really cool. There's actually a case study on their site, but that's what originally got me excited to talk about this on the show. So I'm trying to figure out who do I want to talk about this with and who none other than a sports branding expert. So this is just a fun conversation I have with my friend Derek Sussner from Sussnercom. So let's dive into the difference between marketing and branding with our friend Derek Sussner. So give me like the 30,000 foot view. We are where you came from.
Speaker 2:What gets you excited? Golf and sunshine are what get me excited. Sussner is a branding firm. The 30,000 view is we help organizations, primarily in the sports world, in some way shape or form with their brand. We break it down into three components. We help them communicate who they are, what they do, what they stand for. We help them differentiate so they stand out from the competition or anyone who's buying for their customers attention. We help make sure that what they're doing is attractive. We want them to be attractive, to stand out, to be engaging to that target audience so that their brand is being represented in the right way for the right people.
Speaker 1:And branding is not marketing correct, Correct?
Speaker 2:Branding is not marketing, it's not advertising and it's not your logo. Branding is not a logo.
Speaker 1:It's not just your logo.
Speaker 2:Your brand is not your logo, contrary to popular beliefs so many. It's part of it. I like to say that your brand isn't one thing, it's a hundred things. Your brand is really your reputation. Your brand is how people think about you. It's the gut feeling people get when they talk to you, meet you, interact with you, do business with you. It's the overall way people describe the experience of your organization, your business, your club, and branding is the act of proactively and intentionally crafting that perception in a way that will be most beneficial and, hopefully, authentic to you.
Speaker 1:How long did it take? I'm just fascinated by all of that. It's been popping up in my social media. Social media post is not branding, it's a whole thing. So I was just seeing how you come up.
Speaker 2:We're continuing to come up with the answer. It's an evergreen, evolving. The basic of branding is creating the face, the voice, the personality, the identity. Branding is the act of putting together that identity that represents the club, the person, the organization. Marketing is the act of communicating the messages that you develop. It's the act of trying to gain the attention specifically of the audience that you're trying to talk with. So there are a little bit difference and one comes before the other. I would make the case that marketing, which is absolutely effective if you're posting on social media, if you're telling your story, if you are spreading the word and creating awareness of what you do, promoting who you are, promoting what you do, the branding is where you land, on the logo, the messaging, the value proposition, the language that actually differentiates you from all those other voices that are out there in whatever social media radio, etc.
Speaker 1:So I know you're newer to clubs and doing more, but what have been some of the things that you've seen or noticed coming into the club space and more? Is there a difference between other organizations, other groups, other sports?
Speaker 2:you've seen when it comes to the other side of what other businesses say sporting goods organizations they tend to be very retail, customer minded. So they're thinking in terms of the product that they're putting into a customer's hands and trying to convert that purchase. So the approach in the industry people refer to B2B clients versus B2C clients, people that are working for other businesses or people that are working for other customers, consumers. For us, the process is the same. It's a nuance in understanding who it is that you're talking to and what the people that you're talking to want, but the process is the same, the steps are the same and the problems are generally the same. Clubs are interesting. Sporting goods companies are trying to sell more product. They're trying to get their product to the right people. They're trying to convert sales. A lot of the clubs that we've been talking to recently are healthy. They're full. They have a healthy waiting list and the couple that aren't full have no concerns about filling that waiting list because there are people in their industry or in their market looking to join a club, and so many of the other clubs are full. They're like there's no problem converting to customers. Their challenge is about one elevating the experience for the members and telling the story that's going to help that club attract right fit members, especially as they start looking to the next 10 years or so. Most of the clubs that we talk to. When you say what's your story, what is your club about, they go straight to their history and they tell you how old they are, maybe who the course designer was, if it's a golf club, they tell you all kinds of facts but very rarely do they get to cultural, like what we are, what the spirit of this place is and why you should join.
Speaker 1:How can you tell if your club is a good brand or not, which maybe you can like a test like what separates a really good club brand from a really maybe average to a sub average club brand, or is there a brand that you think does it really really well?
Speaker 2:They're sort of like a telephone chain test I guess I'm dating myself with the whole hand and the string and to tell somebody what they think. But when you ask somebody else or survey, like for clubs that we've worked with, one of the things that we'll do is survey a certain amount of people and ask them what do you think about this club, what do they stand for, what are they about? And it's interesting to see if there's a disconnect or if they come back with the truth or something that's close, the way that members, if a club doesn't take the time to say our story is about X, Y and Z and this is what we're for, this is what this is who we're for. If they don't do that intentionally, the members will do it on their own because they have, they're emotionally and financially invested when they're telling their friends, their colleagues that either aren't members or aren't members of other clubs because they're proud of their club. If you start to see disparate, separate, uncohesive stories across those storylines, that would be a red flag towards a red brand. We talk with clubs that have that will self-admittedly say we have a fractured membership. We have some members who believe that this club is heading in this very certain direction and we have other members that believe we should be doing something different. So when you say there's a misalignment in what the members want, what the members expect or what the members are there for, that usually points to me that lack of unification, that there's an opportunity to refine, refresh that brand to help bring them all together.
Speaker 1:What are some of the first steps to building up your existing brand? So you know I'm XYZ club. Maybe my branding isn't 100% on point. Is there anything I can do, you know, just as like a small micro level, to just start enhancing that and making that more of a priority?
Speaker 2:Make. The first thing that anybody could do and this isn't just for a club but for any business at all would be to get clarity on who you are. Some organizations define themselves by how other people define themselves, and that can get to be a tricky and sometimes dangerous thing in having expectations of us that are what we expect for ourselves. So one is to define who you are and what you are all about as an organization. That can be as simple as getting a team of people in a room and hashing it out with a whiteboard and getting some clarity on it. The second thing is to get clarity on where the club's going. What is the next 10 years or more? What's the next generation look like? You know, I think of clubs specifically that have membership that ranges from people in their 70s to people in their 40s, and we're finding through some research that we're doing that people in their 40s that are either members now or looking to join a club. They want different things than the 65 and 70-year-old generation wanted or wants out of their club, and so the club has an opportunity to decide where are we going? What's that next 10 years look like? I think just those. They sound ethereal. We call those like squishy sort of emotional conversations. Then you can think about how do we message that? What does that look like? Does our logo represent that? One of my favorite things is when somebody asks, puts their logo in front of me and says what do you think of our logo, how does this stand up? And while I could judge it on cosmetics or on design principles or on just like personal preference of whether or not I think it's unique, usually my answer is that I don't know, because I don't know what your club's about yet, I don't know what you stand for and therefore I'm not sure yet if this is telling the story Like branding gives you a feeling.
Speaker 1:Who was I listening to? I forget who. It was One of the marketing peoples and it was basically saying how, if you know the difference in you know just talking about marketing and branding and what branding is and it was saying how, if the difference if Nike or Apple, if you went to a hotel that was designed by Nike or that was designed by Apple, you would pretty much know already like the feeling and what to expect.
Speaker 2:What's the difference between Apple and Microsoft? If each of if Apple opened a hotel and Microsoft opened a hotel, you'd probably get a sense of what sort of experience you might expect in each.
Speaker 1:I would just really hope it would just be one giant window With really good Wi-Fi, and then occasionally, once a day, the entire outside of the building would go blue.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, screen of depth, exactly the widgets that you locked onto your personal home screen. It's so funny, it's really funny.
Speaker 1:But what are some mistakes? You see, some easy, simple mistakes that people, organizations make with branding that they can easily kind of fix or maneuver change.
Speaker 2:The most common mistake is not doing anything, Choosing to, choosing not to decide. That thinking that the status quo is going to help the where you're going question and easy mistakes are putting our head in our sand. Is putting the head in the sand and saying we have a healthy membership, we're financially flush, so we're good to go. We don't thinking about brand or messaging doesn't make any sense. It's sort of like saying in a sales organization to say our staff is busy, we have plenty of work right now, so we're going to stop actively selling our services and promoting our services. You're not keeping that pipeline full. I think short-term thinking or focus overly focusing on a story your history is not your story when you came from and how you were founded and why you were founded and the people that founded your club that's a very important part of your story, but I think it's a supportive part makes it more effective than the lead. If I'm a young person with family a spouse and some kids and I'm shopping for places to join or to be part of, I don't necessarily care who designed your golf club or it's cool that you're a hundred year old club, but I don't understand how that tells me the story of what's going to get me engaged and excited and maybe even to start bringing along some of my friends to join the same place.
Speaker 1:What are some of your favorite books on branding? That's a great question. Books in general is there anything that you're doing lately or recently that you've been enjoying?
Speaker 2:We might have touched base on this. But if there was somebody in an organization who is stuck on that question of who we are, who are we? How can I tell a story of the value prop, of what makes us different, unique? Or the great book called Building a Story Brand by Donald Miller that really literally takes storytelling principles and gives you a formula to fill that in. It's basically what's the problem that most of your audience faces, what's the solution that you as an organization provide to that audience and then what's the success whether that's aspirational, financial or emotional success that you provide to them. It's a great way of thinking about how to start to tell your story. So that book's a favorite of mine. I'm a big fan of Seth Godin. He's in the marketing space. He talks a lot about brand. He has a great daily email. I think he calls it a blog, but no frills, really analog, but just a very nice daily reminder that I've signed up for that I read every day that talks about. It gets way deeper than just the tactics of marketing or the tactics of branding, but good touch points on what that means and gets to some of the human aspects and the psychology and the emotions behind all of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, such a calming voice and like mannerisms about him. He's got cool glasses and he has that look. That can pull it off though, but I don't know if he only does it, because that's all I know of him. If he just all of a sudden start wearing like goofy glasses, I don't know if it would fit. But I think, just because of his whole character and persona, it's a good question.
Speaker 2:I think he's a Warby Parker guy, but I think that they're pretty sure I've heard him say that's where he gets all his cool glasses.
Speaker 1:I don't know where I'm from too, but not cool enough to pull them off.
Speaker 2:There you go. We're clearly in a similar glasses. Yeah, aesthetic, I mean part of your brain.
Speaker 1:Part of your brain. People are listening right now, but they can't see we are almost dressed the same. There you go, branding 101. Brain background blue background, dark glasses dark glasses, kind of cool hair, it's perfect, I guess. At least it all flows. Where can people find you at, sir?
Speaker 2:LinkedIn is a great spot. I try to post some not just self promotional things, but helpful examples of other people in the world, especially in sports and and oftentimes in golf that are doing admirable things in branding. Our website's a great spot. Sustercom you can see some examples of different sports organizations, teams and golf clubs that we've Worked with. There's some before and after examples of what that transition Transformation can look like. Help make it a little bit more Serial on what branding can look like, along with some interesting results and impacts that different organizations have experienced when they add the component of brand on top of sales and marketing and all the other efforts that they have going on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's. Something you also learn is that it's all these different components. It's not just oh, I'm gonna have this one marketing thing, it's gonna solve everything. It's not like when you really start digging down, man, it's a pain in the butt but it's necessary work that needs to be done, that all these little pieces all come together to make the Perfect. I'm really hungry, so I was thinking up an ice cream. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I know, but if you don't start with the, if you don't start with the brand the brand's the ice cream then it's not the chocolate sauce necessarily, or the sprinkles or all the other great toppings that you put on it. But if you jump straight to the marketing without thinking about who you are and how you message that and what that looks like, you're just potentially resting an overload of I don't know caramel sauce, which might be, which might work. It might work for a minute, but it's harder for that to be sustainable and it's harder to know why it worked. It's a little bit more of a guessing game with that point.
Speaker 1:Yeah it is. Also, I went to a bachelor party and we went, don't ask. The bachelor party was in August in Orlando. Now I do remember it was because it was like cove, like a pandemic time, so everything was all mashed up. But we were going golfing and his buddies it was my boy, like his friend showed up and they played the part. I mean, they had the clothes, the clubs, the bags and they got up to swing and let me tell you, I Roasted them badly. I was like it takes a lot of nerve to swing that bad. But come that prepared, like that mismatch of just what, like what story were you telling? And what story are you telling now? Because I'm just laughing at you.
Speaker 2:So they're telling the fake it till you, make it story. So if I look, good, I looked the part.
Speaker 1:I mean they looked great as they drove by on the golf cart. I will say the music was blasting, we were having a good time, but man, it was actually more enjoyable watching them play. Love it.
Speaker 2:It's such a tribal. Think of the, the identity that comes with people that self identify as Golfers or tennis players, runners, writers, podcast hosts and what that persona. What's what various people think that persona should look like. It's interesting and a lot of golf Apparel brands are taking advantage of that, as they should.
Speaker 1:Oh, 100% thank you so much for being here. Appreciate it and we will talk soon. Look forward to it. We are coming up on Thanksgiving. I am thankful for all of you being here. Thank you for the support that you give to the channel and myself. It means the world. We're coming up on our 300th episode, which means 300th episode giveaway, giving away a bunch of cool prizes, many prizes, and I'm even giving away a show. I do a magic mind-dream and comedy show and I'm giving one away to one lucky club. So if you're interested in being in to the prize pool, then over to private club radio comm. You'll see the present icon right up top. Click that, fill it out and you're in. Hope you all enjoyed that episode. I know I did. If you are enjoying the content so far, share a rating, a subscribe any way you can Help share the channel and the content with others who you might find, who you think might find it valuable. You really appreciate. You can learn more about Derek. Like you said, he's over on LinkedIn, derek Seussner, or head over to soosenercom S-u-s-s-n-e-r and if you're interested in learning a little bit more about branding, have a chat with him. He's a really cool guy. I like bringing really cool people onto the show. Really fun people, nice people, enjoyable people, all the people. Until next time, catch y'all on the flip-flip, you flip.