318: Mentoring Tomorrow's Hospitality Leaders w/ Jeff Isbell & Matthew Samel
Ever wondered how a finely tailored suit can transform not just your look, but your entire career trajectory? Join us as Matthew Sammel and Jeff Isbell join me, Denny Corby, to unravel the fabric of the club industry, discussing everything from the confidence boost of professional attire to the ripple effect of mentorship on careers. We take a deep dive into the complexities of private clubs, where evolving dress codes and storytelling become tools not just for setting the table but for setting up a career.
This episode isn't just about the threads we wear but the human connections that weave through the club management experience. You'll hear heartwarming stories about the bonds between club managers, faculty, and students and how these relationships forge career paths and foster personal growth. And for those wrestling with the balance between professional commitments and personal life, we share how the industry is reshaping itself to offer the flexibility that modern careers demand. It's a candid exploration of the private club world, balancing the scales of tradition and innovation.
As we wrap up, I can't help but express my sincere gratitude for your companionship on this journey through one of our most extensive episodes yet. Your support fuels our passion for these conversations, and we hope you'll continue to engage with us. So, to everyone who's listened all the way through, thank you. Until the next episode, keep weaving those connections and dressing for success, both in life and in the exclusive corridors of the club industry.
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00:00 - Inclusivity and Mentorship in Club Industry
15:09 - Changing Work Environment and Student Role
22:09 - Enhancing Connections Between Clubs and Universities
30:38 - The Changing Landscape of Private Clubs
44:47 - Generational Gap & Thank You Notes
53:07 - Club Culture and Staff Recruitment
01:04:26 - Human Connection in Club Management
01:14:23 - Club Industry Career Exploration and Balance
01:19:56 - Work-Life Balance and Flexibility in Employment
01:26:54 - Promoting Club Management to Faculty Advisors
01:39:42 - Private Clubs and Student Debt Relief
01:47:12 - Reward for Listening to Entire Episode
Hey everybody, welcome to Private Club Radio where we give you an insider view into the elite club management and hospitality world. It's all about private clubs country clubs, yacht clubs, golf clubs, city clubs, athletic clubs. I may have said more than one twice, it's okay. I'm your host, denny Corby. I sit down with two awesome people from the club world Matthew Sammel, phd, che, fmp, sphr all the acronyms, all the credentials from over at Johnson Wales University. He's also the Johnson Wales University student chapter faculty advisor and CMAF faculty member. Then we also have our friend, jeff Isbell, ccm GM, over at Renaissance. I had the very fortunate opportunity to go and hang out in person with Jeff and Matt, dr Matt at Jeff's Club, renaissance, and Ting's, burrow, massachusetts. So happy that came out well to his hit or miss. I'm going to make that sound. The conversation stems and started from something that we were talking about all about getting younger people into the private club industry, into this world, and oddly enough, I feel like it's been a major topic in a lot of the people I've been talking to as well. This is a conversation that was from last year. Forgive me, this has taken a while because we did it in person, we did it at the club and there were a few drinks and we are all the three of us are Chattie Kathies and it was, I think, a well over two and a half hour, almost three hour, chat that we had ended with Expresso Martini's, but I cut it down to about an hour and a half. This is a doozy, this is a road trip. Listen, this is a doozy. But we talk about starting with straight off the bat, about getting people into the industry but getting them ready and looking presentable and allowing everybody to have the opportunity to be in the club world. And that was one of the cool things that Dr Sammel started off with is he never allows people to not be dressed appropriately for a club event or going to try to work in that facility. In those facilities, getting a position always helps them look their best and be presentable. So we talk about professional attire and inclusivity and showing people that it doesn't take a lot to look good. You can look good on the cheap. It's all about the tailoring and the fit and just trying on things. Really, I think it was. Mindy Kaling was in an interview or me was in her book, I can't remember said besides her, like doctors and lawyers and husband, whoever it's her tailors or like next best friend, because they can make a good tailor, can make anything look good. But then just from that, you know the impact that the proper dress and attire, just how it affects our confidence, especially a student's, a younger person's confidence, especially sometimes coming from lower income backgrounds. So it's trying to be as inclusive as possible. And then from there we talk about the evolution of club dress codes and culture and how that's all adapting and changing, as is the entire world. We talk about the role of mentorship in career development, because mentors, you know whether it's a faculty advisor at someone's school, a club manager or another professional how they can play such a crucial role in shaping a student or younger professionals or just a younger person's career path in the club world and in the hospitality world. And the cool part is how a mentorship can really help a student navigate their professional journeys. And that's just everything, from including the, their selection of internships and understanding the importance of, you know, personal compatibility, hard skills, soft skills, all the good skills, as I said, buckle up for this one. It is a doozy, it's a, it's a long one. This is one you might want to come back to a couple of times, but it's okay because it's all good. But please welcome to the show two very distinguished club professionals, jeff Isbell and Matthew Sammel.
Speaker 2:They may not have clothes and one of the things we do is I will never let a student not go to a club professionally dressed and has nothing to do with the club. That's to do with them and their brand and their professionalism. So I had students from time to time and they come up to me and they say, like I'll send the email out before the class hey, before you come to campus, make sure you pack your clothes because there'll be professional events you want to go. So every once in a while I have a student that they just don't have and I said I'm going to take you to a store that anyone can afford. So we go to the east side of Providence, which is really high end, right, high income, east Providence, high income. So we go to the Goodwill there because they had the best clothes, because when I was a student and I needed a jacket, I went there and I would go with the student there and they would find something. And it's like I mean like Hart, schaffner, mark's, like really high brand names, and they were nothing. So this kid got a jacket and a tie. They never have ties In my car. If you look in the back of my car. I have like 15 ties.
Speaker 1:I don't want to.
Speaker 2:Right, because I am just calling. We're not wearing ties for some reason anymore. I still wear a jacket and tie when I'm lecturing. You do, I still do, because that's what I have always done. And so students come to the club, like last week or Austin. I said I got something for you, come here, yeah you don't want to embarrass them. So I said here that's going to match perfect. So at the end of the night, coming to my back seat, I got something for you. I got someone's going to match your shirt, so at the end of the night, because they go to take it off, I'm like, no, keep it, keep the tie.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's awesome Right.
Speaker 2:And they're so appreciative of that, you know, because now they understand, because they came and everybody else is dressed Right. They didn't really. They didn't know if I was serious or whatever it was, but we went to this goodwill and I was like, how do you know that? I said because when I was a student I couldn't afford it and I went on it. But what was really interesting, what reminded me about that, was your rack thing. So at the goodwill they don't normally go in a clothing store and they have everything by size. They arrange theirs by color. So it was like all the blue jackets, all the green jackets, right. So it was like you had to try everyone on and this kid's like, oh, this fits good. I just I couldn't. I was not laughing at him, but it was like this he had long arms, it's like this. I was like, no, let's get another jacket. So that's just a reminder of that, because you don't know where people come from and we know at our university it's a lot of first time students that go to college and I plan we were talking about sticker shock, of tuition earlier and they're paying tuition it's like half the price of the house. They're parents probably caught right, they're spending this. What are they going to? What's the rate of return and what, so that those connections we were talking about earlier, that's what matters, so I can make a student feel better about themselves. I have to do that before I can go to clubs, right. But it's just the caring, it's that touch point, it's the text, it's the little, it's the little thing that they, that they trust you and the trust is the key and then they'll believe you. That's the Joey story.
Speaker 3:No, but that's really interesting because something I've spoke about a lot is like getting people who are not ordinarily be exposed to the club industry into clubs or around clubs, whether it be an HBCU or lower income communities. Even learning that a club exists, they might not have the they won't. You just told that story. They don't have the appropriate equipment, right. So that's something to consider. All these things like how do you get a jacket? How do you get? It's like a hurricane, excuse me. How do you get a jacket? How do you get a tie? How do you tie a tie? How do you tie a tie? I mean, and you might not have these, some of these people might not have fathers that could teach them or a father that's ever tied a tie before right. So that's interesting. Yeah, that's interesting. That's all true.
Speaker 2:And, and they're, sometimes they're embarrassed and they won't ask and and that's I've. I mean took me a long time and I pick up on the cues. Um, you know well, I don't want to go to the tour. Why do you want to go to tour? I don't, I don't close, right, I mean, what do you need? Because it's not like I don't have stuff that I went to my doctor last week. He said you don't get shape of your shapes round. So I have, like all these sizes of clothes I get, absolutely. So I keep this. I mean, my wife asked me why keep all the stuff in the closet? I said because someday some kids going to need it, right, they're going to need a blazer, they're going to need, you know, whatever. Um, but that's the difference maker, because if that gets that kid to a club, and I'm like, and they see the club and that's the career to us, I write in every letter to the managers after, after we visit. You know that event changes students perception of employment, right, long term career decisions can be made at a club tour, right, and and you know we've talked about that on on a lot of occasions that you know nowadays it doesn't have to be face to face can be virtually those virtual tours we've been doing, and I can plug in anyone into a virtual tour. It's not the same, but it's close because the managers do a great job. It used to be like the technology was they go with their phones or whatever. I had a manager I can't remember what club it was so they taped their tablet to a wheelchair and they pushed the wheelchair to the club. Right. I was like, wow, that was really creative. You get something like Cherokee Town and Country. They have this 360 degree thing where we're online, they're doing their their 360 degree tour and you go in the room, it pops up. It tells you what the room is and what it's used for.
Speaker 3:So I mean it's just amazing. We have people that will walk in a 360 degree circle and try that space, but no, no, no, like when I oh, on our website and I wasn't really clear. We're getting people exposed to private clubs, and how do you do that?
Speaker 1:Well, so, going back, it was like weird to interrupt cause, like there wasn't a point for it. But it's like, I think, when you can show people who are, and it's going back to everything, that, which is why we're here talking is getting different industries and different people involved in the club world who they may have not thought they would be involved in the club world. So someone who might spend a lot of money on clothes but they don't have the slacks and this and that and they're like what? But it's like, oh, hey, did you know that? There's like like it sounds so bad, like private club swag, like there's like every, every industry has their own thing. And it's like, hey, you might understand, like how am I trying to you pick up what I'm putting down? Like being able to take someone who might not understand the clothing but go, hey, what you see? As like I'm not going to, I'm taking all this out. But like, drip, no, like you know what I mean when people have their own things. And it's like, oh, my God, you like, I'm sure some people you would go okay, you have to spend, you know, a jacket, a good jacket 750 bucks. The pants, the shoes and this like, oh, my God, like oh, no, no, no, okay. So okay, instead of that, you, we need a really cool pair of Jordans and then you really need a good like Christian Dior top thing. So then it's like oh, so I think if they can just at least relate and understand, okay, this might not be what I enjoy, but it's the same like the same compartments, if that makes sense. So so to me, I think the older I get, a little bit it's more like we all like the same shit. It's just how you value it and this, and that it's always like one of those like oh, if you can just show like, hey, this industry is fucking weird. But if you enjoy like clothing imagine like bougie clothing for golfers or like this, and it's like niche style stuff, I don't know. To me it's like how can you also like show people that there's because this is a very strange niche of people for both to get a private club plus the membership Like this is. It's a whole different game and the game's evolving also. So, like you know, the pro shop gear and clothing is a different game than it was years ago, five years ago.
Speaker 3:I mean, oh, the whole accessories In our shop we have like.
Speaker 1:Johnny oh or whatever it is.
Speaker 3:But there's like hats that say like, they're like vulgar. You know what would have been considered vulgar five years ago? And they're. I almost bought one things about drinking and it'd be like grip it and rip it, like there's all kinds of you know apparel that used to be very kind of stated oh, this one has vertical stripes, oh, and now there's like what you're wearing now has drinks all over it, and there's expressions and sayings, and every club has something like we have ready on a lot of our stuff where you know you'd never have alternate. We have like six alternate logos or we call the club nine different things and the members refer to things differently and punch bowl. We have four things called punch bowl and halfway house the halfway house where people can go get therapy for their drug addiction and a snack.
Speaker 2:No, no cuts, Leave it. So it's interesting of the your parallel of being able to have students. Let's talk about students and that generation being able to understand what the professional work environment is, because it's changed. It's changed over my lifetime and the expectations are different at different private, at different private clubs. So we went to a club last weekend and the manager made a point of saying one of the reasons I'm here is because I get to wear a casual. I don't have to wear a jacket and die and you'll find that it's. You know, dress code is really a member driven decision. I mean, I can remember, not even five years ago, the biggest issue in clubs was denim. Right, we're going to make the decision of jeans or no jeans and I'm like, really Like so because we're researching I'm in students research trends of private clubs. I had denim, like this whole conversation about denim, and I'm thinking about that new member, the younger member, who spent $1,000 on jeans and saying I can't wear these in the club, you know.
Speaker 1:So there's this turn of reality, the older member who his whole outfit is. You know, he's like my jeans cost this and yeah, yeah but the older member, the old legacy, how would you ever?
Speaker 3:allow jeans in my club. That's what you know. Those are my casual home clothes. I come to the club to dress up, but that argument is gone now. It's gone.
Speaker 2:Well, but it's five generations of. That's what's. Another unique aspect is you know, jeff's got to manage five generations of members, right? So they're all going to have different needs and wants, but clothing should not be the obstacle to member enjoyment.
Speaker 1:Right. I mean, that's why people like so if you buy into the program. So now I think the program might be changing where it's okay, hey, if you come in. So now it's like a known thing hey, saturday evenings, no jeans. Now it's like a thing All right, so you're not going to wear your expensive jeans, you wear nice slacks and your nice jacket. So it's like a you have to like almost yeah, but that's been the case in a while and I think all that's going away.
Speaker 3:There are old like clubs nearby us, the 100 year old top 10 country clubs in the country and that's cool to have always gonna be no genes, because that's who they are For us and for even my last club. My last club was around for 120 years but they were very you don't need to cope people war coats, the, the 80 year olds, war coats. They wanted to. They would never wear jeans but you could and didn't matter. My president there interviewed me in flip-flops here, my the president interviewed me get a hoodie on the said Renaissance, super casual, like, yes, I pick up this vibe because that's me. I don't want like to wear Jackson ties. The members don't. What do I have to wear one?
Speaker 1:I'm not the banker when I came down in my underwear though, they looked at me really weird.
Speaker 3:So it has to fit. That threw me off a little bit more be appropriate. That's the problem but, oh.
Speaker 1:But the thing was like I you guys sell to under. I was wearing to under, so what was that? One Was the onesie that there's a little to under the weather, I think.
Speaker 3:But can I want to bring it back to. I Want to actually. Let's talk about students for a second.
Speaker 2:Let's go back to students quit, but I mean, I just want to make one more point by dressing.
Speaker 3:Be the worst thing that I did. I, this is all over the place Doing the start over.
Speaker 2:I mean, one of the things to your point is, with some of the clubs are Areas within the facility, like the fine, though, if they have a fine dining dining room, that maybe there's a dress code Just for that area, sure, and and I 100% right that because of the, the shift in membership where the core of members are now younger and family, and that's just driving the, the Lack of stuffiness, I think I think right, and I'll go back to something Jeff Morgan always says you know, we're not our grandfather's clubs anymore and that's why there's videos I show that came out from CMA and students. It's it's, it's not, it's a hidden gem, is how I describe it. People don't understand clubs, right, I mean, students don't understand clubs, people from the outside Don't understand clubs and when I talk to administrators, they, they don't get it until they go to one. And when they go to one.
Speaker 3:They're like oh wow.
Speaker 2:You know, this is not what I thought it was, and that's really. I mean to talk about denim. We can laugh about that, but from somebody from the outside saying, well, that was a serious thing, they're serious business problems. Clubs don't have those serious business problems right. I mean, and I think that's the environment. That's why I think from a student perspective, it's a, it's an enriching environment. The opportunity it's where they don't have in hotels and restaurants, where they don't have time to train. You know, the the do's and fees structure really drives the ability of the club manager To do what's best for the staff. For and when I talk to students about that and I talk to faculty about that, you know they don't get it, they don't understand it and and and it's hard. But the students that take the leap Right, they take the class or they go to a club and they meet the managers, they're just hooked after that and it's and it's easy. When I get faculty to do that it's, it's a blessing. I mean they were like, wow, I knew nothing about this.
Speaker 3:I want to. It's okay. I want to talk a little bit about that first hook that you throw out there. So you know, I was a student chapter member along to go out. Life is different for for in colleges and in the club world, for sure, but one of our, from a national board perspective and just as a club manager, our big perspective, big challenges how are we getting students Into the industry, exposed to the industry, and then how do we keep them from college Transition to postgraduate? So can you sort of walk me through what you're seeing in the students? You're, you're the professor in the club management, teaching a club management program at a hospitality school. How does it all? But how do I find you? How do I then find clubs? So that's a great question.
Speaker 2:I know every school is a little bit different, but but the, but the approach. So let's talk about the approach, because that's what we had initially had talked about. So I think the first answer your question and we talked about this earlier I think students that don't that are active members of the student chapter and they're in the club and they think it's a school thing and sometimes they don't understand it's a fast-tracked career path. So I think that's on the faculty advisor, that's on the on the faculty to say, hey, look, you know you did two internships in clubs and You're known and you have your brand and you got to understand the importance of that. Why would you go to hotels now, right? So I think intervention I've done interventions of okay, you know your at career day, why? Why you at career day, you got seven offers for clubs done. You don't have to go to career day. And I mean that's a little a little A my part a little. I don't. I don't want them to look at other things, but I think the approach of what a club manager can do with a university is More outreach. Let's talk about that. So you have universities in your community, like we're different because you know you have Johnson Wales and you mad. So I'm a club manager and I'm looking to get closer to my university. That's in my backyard, so I Can tell you from a faculty perspective. They're waiting for that phone call. I don't want to lecture. You know how I run my club class. We go every week to a club and not everybody has thought about that. So if I'm a club manager, I go to the website, I go to the hospitality college whatever school, whatever it is and and I'll say this because we'll talk about this later Schools of business. You guys are business, right. My big push for our chapter is to create club awareness On campus. Right now we're not focusing on hospitality and culinary, we're focusing on health and wellness. School of business, other other majors because you are small to medium-sized businesses that hire for all disciplines. So now I'm not club manager, I'm looking at the website. You don't go to the Dean, go to the faculty members. Go to the faculty members first. Who, if they teach a club class great, that's a no-brainer they teach a business management class. The key is getting to the intro classes. Right, right, forget about the scene. I mean, you go to senior classes, but for me, I'm a club manager. I want to know who's teaching the Introduction to management classes. Let's just say that Hi, I'm a club manager. I don't know if you know anything about our business. I would love to come in and talk to back, talk to class. Send them a link to your website. Send them your linked in, like let them see who you are. I don't know anything about clubs. Well, let me talk about clubs or whatever. That is that outreach. I think when we teach and we're so focused on what we're doing. I'm always looking for outside help. I think students I will say this and you can record this so I think students learn more outside the classroom than they do in the classroom. Right and as a faculty member, I don't want to lecture all the time, I want to bring the guest speaker in, but it's how we set that up. So if I'm the club manager, I want to do more outreach to the universities, community colleges. And I will say this if I were a club manager right now and I wanted to get this vision into students, I would be in high schools and middle schools right now. I mean seventh-eighth. We're doing outreach to seventh and eighth graders right now and we're calling them those schools and we're doing outreach for college because they're making decisions about going to college earlier. But now this is an engine. You know hot. You can talk about hospitality. Now we're talking about clubs right.
Speaker 3:I mean I've heard stories of hospitality companies reaching out into the high school level. You know, probably out of a necessity they need line workers, but it's building that kind of minor league pharmacist. I'm like, oh, now you're gonna go to the hospitality school, you're gonna Internet our hotel company and now you're gonna be with us for 30 years and get the gold one.
Speaker 2:It's show and tell at that level. But think about that you are a high school teacher and now we're gonna get to go to the local club Right on a tour, right, however that works. I mean you work out the logistics, but it's something they haven't thought of. It's engaging with the students and and as we have talked on many occasions Getting the boots on the ground, getting them there changes everything. It changes once it changes, I think, once it changes the faculty perspective and they understand they can talk about it and they'll champion it and they'll, and, they'll, and they'll, they'll, they'll find the time within their curriculum to be able to do the trip.
Speaker 3:Do you feel that? So the you're saying the biggest issue is managers connecting with the programs. I would that would go inroads for. So the call the action being Every manager, call your local college, rather be Johnson Wales, a major hospitality school, or the local community college which we have won a stone store from us here right and saying, hi, we're here, what can, what can we do to help you?
Speaker 2:Right and and more than that. So I've taken a look at your curriculum. You teach these courses County management, communications and media Understand. We're a unique part of the business. We're a business that hires for all of these majors and I think you know I talked to my media and communications people at Thomas Understand like that's a job at a club or you know we talked about health and wellness and that's kind of that's newer. But you know I'm an accounting student that is gonna go work for an accounting firm. Why?
Speaker 3:would.
Speaker 2:I do that when I can come to the room, not beautiful Renaissance Club and work here right.
Speaker 3:Well, I think that's and that's something that's really important is it used to be like oh Mary will take care of social media because she's got a new iPhone, she's gonna Marketing the club. It was a job Like you need someone who's thinking and we happen. We're fortunate we have a marketing department that organizes our five clubs, but at a lot of clubs that's a growing position where it's it used to be their membership and marketing. But now you have a communications person or people and then the membership market. There are separate pieces because there's a lot that goes into the communications and Branding is a big buzzword. But all of that Someone needs to manage that and you have a skill set to do that Doesn't mean that you've ever waited a table in your life and that's sort of been the in the club business. It's got to be oh, you're a food and beverage person. That's not the truth anymore.
Speaker 1:You know there's so many avenues to come in communications so I think it's one of those almost like a this is my way of saying it but like game, recognized game. So it's coming into a place where, hey, I might know Social media and you might know waiting tables I Don't know that you don't know this, but I know that you know your thing Well, I know you know that I know my thing well, and we're gonna learn from each other and we're gonna make this good. I think that's a cool Like moment. That's hard to sometimes come across is because people always go like oh well, you don't understand this. No, no, no, like we all know what we're doing. You do your thing Well, I do my thing Well, we're gonna figure out how we can communicate well and we're gonna put it forward and exactly right, 100%.
Speaker 2:So I tell my students because it used to be the goal to graduate a well-rounded student. I'll give crap about that anymore. I say, look, you're gonna get a management degree. So how weak could you be at accounting? Pick what you like, what you're passionate about, passion about marketing, do marketing, get really, really good at it. Because this whole approach of strengths and weaknesses, I mean, how weak could you be in the other things? Go with your strengths and to to Jeff's point. So I'll take something that I was talking to a faculty member. I was like you know that at clubs, that with our IT departments they don't put anything in the cloud, that they have ID departments in-house because of the Nature of the membership and the records are keeping. And I was like, and that's a job, and I'm like they don't need to know anything about clubs. All you need to understand is they're gonna have a position and it's gonna be physically at the club, right, most clubs are not going to go to a third-party vendor for that. They'll make that a position. I mean I'm not saying all clubs- but larger clubs.
Speaker 3:Well, I think again, everything that we are now talking about in clubs was sped up, put on steroids whatever dumb cliche you want to use because of COVID right, right, the C word, as you called it before. Like we, we Went from being like slowly progressing to new trends, so we have no choice but to adapt. So IT and a club was like maybe was a third-party vendor, maybe it was a guy who, like fell into it because he liked, you know, to play video games at night and that was his passion. But now it's like we have to make it so everyone can work from home and basically work 24 hours a day, which is a whole. Nother conversation about what, if that's lettuce. But now we need video conferencing, we need secure data sharing and stuff that was like sort of a little. Servers in the closet, that's where that's safe. Like to having to evolve to being a Modern business where it wasn't just boxes and files and the accountant who kind of wore 11 hands, one also think private clubs are changing, like the term and the name and like what it is, is adapting and evolving as people are getting younger and Think of that nature. Well, people want different things from what a club like growing up. Then the club was golf, and then the family came on Sunday and the dad played cards on a Friday night and the pool was the pool. But no, no, it is not. It is still those things, but now they need to be everything to everybody because People want to join a problem. Young, younger people are joining private clubs. People who might not be the most wealthy people are doing private clubs now Because they know it's a safe environment and there's good networking for themselves. Because we don't meet our neighbors anymore. So you can meet people at the club. Your kids need activities year-round, after school, in the summer, winter vacations so the price point exactly.
Speaker 2:So so services or the, so for somebody a.
Speaker 1:Ten thousand dollar initiation is ludicrous compared to someone who's a hundred grand, so like that's also, I don't know, but I think like, just like students we're talking about fit a right club for the right student.
Speaker 2:I think members are the same way, but if you look at the menu of services, regardless of level of club, it's like are a pickleball is the biggest growing sport. They may not have five pickleball courts but they're gonna have one, so they're in tune. I think what's unique is they're in tune to what the members want. I mean, price point is what it is you get, quote what you pay for. But I think, truly, you know there are blue collar member clubs and that's okay and there's nothing wrong with that. Because of the nature and the essence of the club industry. It's a group of people that are like-minded and they got together for whatever the reason was it was golf, it was rackets, it was boating, it was whatever and that's not gonna change in the industry as a formation of the club. It's the members gotta feel comfortable with that and typically, I mean I would think that that aligns itself with whatever the financial responsibility is of the member pretty well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I would say that's fair. We're a new kid on the block. Private club here. We've been about 20 years old. There's clubs within, you know, a 10 mile drive of us that have been 125 years. Our initiation is 35. Theirs is 85. We offer a different product than they do and we know that. You know we don't. We're not a jacket, entire club. Our website's redefining the private club. We don't really know what that means.
Speaker 1:But that's the beauty is like you shouldn't like. If you apply to a club, just because you apply doesn't mean you should fit or belong Like a club is a.
Speaker 3:I don't want to say a special place, but like, but you want to feel like it's neat. You want to be where people are like you. Exactly, and you like enjoying the same things Like in the town that my wife and I live in.
Speaker 1:We learned which is where Bragg.
Speaker 3:Tingsboro. It's very glamorous.
Speaker 1:It's like T-Y-N-G-S-B-O-R-O-U-G-H.
Speaker 2:Oh God, there's reversed. E's in there Exactly.
Speaker 3:In a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a Tilda Swap.
Speaker 2:It's a swap.
Speaker 3:But. But. So there's a club there called Sorry, the Vesper country club is the club in our town.
Speaker 1:Vesper start with a Z.
Speaker 3:With an X. So so we had I think my oldest daughter was one at the time and someone who came to my job and sold me golf carts was a member at Vesper and said hey, you live in Tingsboro, it's right down the road. You should join as a social member. They have this great. No, not a pool member, it's a program. A thousand bucks you can use the pool and dine at the club, but oh, okay. That kind of makes sense for us. I worked in clubs my whole life. I never wanted to join a private club. I wanted to get you out of your mind. So I mentioned to my wife, half joking. I was like, well, we gotta go and check it out. Okay, we go, we check it out Immediately. This would be great. So cut you and me writing the check. Okay, here we go. The end of the summer, labor Day weekend, we get home and I'm there like six times in the year we get home to. That club saved my life this summer. I could, you were at work, I could go. I met some people, I could have a glass of wine. The lifeguards entertained Zoe If she had a meltdown. We were five minutes on the road. I threw in the car, we went home. Three weeks later we got a letter. We are sorry to inform you that we are eliminating the pool membership but for you, you can get grandfathered in to the new social program with no initiation fee. You'll be a social member. You do have to go through the interview process, but you're getting in on this deal. So I have to go now and get interviewed to join this club. I'm like I can't believe this is happening to me.
Speaker 1:And you failed.
Speaker 3:And yes. I failed because I got in and now it's 3,000 a year. Right, that's how you're home. So now, every year the due increases come, I'm like I don't go there. My wife goes there. I go there five times a year, but we go to the Halloween party, we go to the Christmas party, we're there at the pool If our kids are in the kids camp, and someone like me who grew up.
Speaker 1:It's the memories it creates.
Speaker 3:Right, so grew up blue. So I'm like that's the hook, I get it. Now, because of having someone who's done this their whole life, I'm like kind of private clubs are kind of stupid, like in the middle, like people are paying a lot of money, but then when you to see it from a member's perspective, I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, couldn't live without it. Now, it's part of our life, it's part of who we are. So we have a whole group of friends that are best for members. We're social members, they're all golf members, so they're much fancier than we are, but that's our life. And so instead of renting the Cape House for a week that's what I justify I meant to say that's our sort of connection.
Speaker 2:No, that probably makes you a better manager. You see a member's perspective too.
Speaker 3:It is, and although when I'm there it's like hat, sunglasses, please don't Right, I don't want to be because I know the manager there. I'm like, I don't want to act like oh.
Speaker 1:Mr Cece, excuse me, I'm here, would you like your?
Speaker 3:I acknowledge me here. The big entrance Cannonball but it made, but it did give me a perspective. I'm like, yeah, like you know, more of you know, rather than Say my name Rather than clubs. Clubs are where I work. It's also not where I socialize too, and it's, but it's yeah, it is a different perspective, I'm like okay. You know, someone said would you like to join the pool committee? To my wife I said you will absolutely not join the pool committee. At the club. So of course she's not a pool committee.
Speaker 2:Cause she's an active and that's a good point, cause that's something we bring up in class. So the member cause this is also something that has changed right Could be either spells Sometimes the members of the wife right, but you say that, I say that in class and I'm like what are you talking about? What are you talking about Right? Or I say that to appear, I'm like the member it can be. It's whoever signs the membership, right? So they're like well, how, what? I thought they didn't allow women in clubs, right? I'm like okay, no, that's not what it's like. Some don't right, but everyone's different right and the other thing they don't. A lot of people don't understand, and I tried to. I mean, obviously, when I teach it, I'm like look, you know we get this whole stigma of being discriminatory, right, and I don't want to go down that rabbit hole, but there's a member wait list, like we were at a club last week. The wait list is four or five years. Okay, that means you're in line, right, you join as a social member, right, or whatever the other membership is. but you know, they don't understand the equity part of it. They don't understand that. Okay, the IRS defines clubs through their paradigm and their rules and you can only have 300 full members, right?
Speaker 3:Legacy members. But here though, about like here we've prided ourselves We've never had an A member or a B member. You join, you have the same privilege. Men and women can play golf at eight am on Sunday or one o'clock on Friday. There's no restrictions there.
Speaker 2:So, one membership, one membership. One membership Rather than other clubs.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Other clubs Right.
Speaker 2:And I understand you want to expand the membership based on different types of membership, but that that, I think, is a different approach, right One?
Speaker 3:type of membership. Yeah, traditionally that's not how clubs are set up at all. Right, absolutely.
Speaker 1:I don't even think there's a weird weird's the wrong word but I was a member of a club in Pennsylvania and a friend of mine hated the club, even though the club has changed. But because back in the day they but yeah, can we use some, but no, basically back in the day, that like because they wouldn't allow women to become member or whatever it's like, they're still like a stigma, they're still a, and even that like and it's not for everybody, it's not everybody's thing, but it's just realizing, hey, you know, when a certain name is set up club, you know, just as we all know, oh, why is all? You know, back in the day I couldn't have joined. Okay, well, things have changed.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. But no, it was literally, probably, I think, when three clubs left that because of governance or whatever it is that they that's all men but and it's not that women can't apply, it's just the wait list is forever right. But interestingly enough and I just think it you know, once you really do a deep dive into private clubs and I worked at a private club and I remember this so long term remember the husband passed away. He was a past club president and the husband and wife were both very active. She was on committee work. They were active members of the club together as a couple, but he was the member when he passed. I remember that the club voted to make her a full member and she was a full member for the rest of the time that she was there and I remember that distinctly that that was a big deal. That was a big deal. That's funny. Yeah, Right, it's a big deal, but the members decided that because of her active engagement in the club and committee work and and that's funny because there's a ton of stories like well, what happens if couples get divorced?
Speaker 3:That used to be a big deal, like who gets the membership? And every club had to write rules like someone's like well, one of them's in, one of them's out Somewhere. Well, both spouses now are members and then they're like well, the hell she is, the hell he is. But those were big issues years ago that you don't hear about anymore because the world's evolved and clubs have evolved and like those aren't problem, those are 60s era problems.
Speaker 1:Well, now it's like also, people are like oh, I don't wanna be here if I'm not accepted here. But my husband's friends are like, if my wife's friends don't like?
Speaker 3:me, I'm not gonna hang out here At my last club, we had a couple that was together for like 30 years and they're like and now we're done. And so they became their own separate members and the biggest fight was well, I want that number because their account number was X. Well, I wanna be X. Well, you can't, well, the hell I should. It was the number that was the biggest, or?
Speaker 2:locker right. There was a fight about the locker. You're right about the locker.
Speaker 1:You're 691.5 and you're 691.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they wanted to be E1, and now you're E15. Right, it's really. It's so much humor. It's so much humor from an editor and a point. Oh my God, what the issues are right.
Speaker 2:You host a golf tournament and the member's like I want this pro to have my locker right and it was like but it's interesting when you get into the. You know, I think one of the things that I value is I learn something every time I go to a club, even though I've been there a hundred times. Right, well, I haven't been there a hundred times, but probably 20.
Speaker 1:What'd you learn today?
Speaker 2:Like you brought up TCC before and I didn't realize so. A staff member was telling a story that the pro golfers will leave a note in the locker of a member because they know they're using a member's locker and they'll write a handwritten thank you note for letting me use their locker. Oh, that's really cool.
Speaker 3:I didn't know that.
Speaker 2:I was like ooh right, so it's like, but to your point of like. So on the member, I want Tiger Woods to have my locker right.
Speaker 3:I mean, it's crazy like that, right.
Speaker 2:But I was like, wow, that's a cool nugget that I can take back into the classroom. Like I would not have ever thought about that. I'm a pro tour player. I'm actually kind of renting somebody else's space right, because now forget about the members that they have to go play somewhere else right with the reciprocals. But I'm using a member's space, personal space. I thought that was cool, like they'll write a little thank you note. So I just was like it's these little things that I just think are really cool.
Speaker 1:It's actually kind of neat. I'm fortunate I've been able to play some like performance venues. So, doing my magic mind, you're gonna comedy show DennyCorpicom, but no, so like I've.
Speaker 2:No, it's.
Speaker 1:Corby Enterprises. Llc, oh, there you go. Don't ask for my EIN number, cause I'll give it to you.
Speaker 2:It's one.
Speaker 1:But, like you know, I've got to play at some places where you go backstage and it's where all the people like write their names. So it's similar but different. It's like oh wow, like this is kind of neat.
Speaker 3:Do you think students would find that kind of cool?
Speaker 2:They do and it's really interesting cause I want to point that out. So when we talk about generational differences and traditions of the club environment, where some of the traditions are going away, I ask my students to do handwritten thank you notes. They bring thank you notes to the club that they're gonna visit. Like I'm telling them this, they're looking at me like I'm crazy. I'm like. So the chapter members, the students that are in the in the CMA student chapter at our school, they understand it. So now I have the class students, they're brand now, right. So we always bring like I bring extra ties I have in the car, but we bring extra thank you notes, cause they get it at the moment, right, and now they don't have the tool. Well, I'm not gonna allow them to fail on that. So they're writing the thank you note and they hand it to the manager, but they're writing a personal comment, right Then and there, right. So that's something that you know, I think is lost through the generations, but it's something of tradition, can you? And then the managers are like they're overwhelmed. I had 31 students at the last club door. That's crazy, right. And they're getting 31 things and they're like just keep doing what you're doing, you know what you are inspiring these students to get on the right track, and that's really what it's about, I mean.
Speaker 3:So here's the problem with notes for the students.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, Cause they don't, we don't they don't teach that anymore. They look like. I mean it's like the letters are reversed. They look like they wrote it with their feet.
Speaker 1:I'm like, oh, my God, sorry, if you can show them, whether it's before or after, like what a handwritten note means. So it's almost like you're asking them to do something, but if then, around that same time, if you can show them, like, what that might mean to them, so it's like, oh, like, hey, you know. So like. It's things that I look back now as like a younger person when I remember similar situations where, like now, it's a habit for me to do like handwritten notes and certain things. So that's why I love what you're saying about here. But it's also like nice, especially, I think, now when we're getting into an age where it's so digital and non like I like touching things, like I give me things to touch, no, but but like I think, as we get into a more digital world and someone hands me a business, whatever it is like if it has a certain feeling, you're like oh, this was definitely like. Like to me nowadays, like the, it means more that they took more time to. Hey, this paper is different than this paper and this is different than this.
Speaker 2:Well, it's not only more meaningful, it's the act. But I think, if you can, show the kid or the kid.
Speaker 1:If you can show the person like oh hey, isn't this a cool feeling? You can give this to somebody else.
Speaker 2:So it's the act of bridging a generational gap. That's what I call it. That's how I present it. I'm like you may not feel comfortable with it, but it's a communications manner. When we talk about communication we talked about communications earlier I said do you have to be respectful of how that person wants to be communicated to? Like you should ask do you prefer text? Do you I mean all the banking and all the other companies say what is your preference of communication? And when I bring this into the realm and I'll show them in my office I have the handwritten thank you notes of all the students and you brought up a good point Like what does that look like? To the next step. So on my wall is a student that I had undergrad and grad and I don't use the term mentor very lately, so I probably have mentored. This is the start of my 25th year teaching. I can say I've mentored three students and they had this tree, like they had this frame thing that they presented to me. I went to their graduation party and they presented it to me at their graduation party of this whole thing about how I'm their mentor and how they appreciate it, and I've helped that person open a business. I helped that person's now teaching at Virginia Tech University, like I went to their wedding. So they have been, and they have been in as much of an integral part of my life as I have been with them. But that started with written communication and I think if we lose that, I mean it's not just the club industry, it's what is. How do the generations communicate? And I can remember on Stowe's a very short story, that so we were at student conference in New York and I had students there and we were at Sleepy Hollow Country Club and they were out like taking pictures of the river and I was like I saw there was four of them and they were walking and I was like, what do you know about the Beatles, right? And I'm like, what are you talking about? I said and I showed them this picture of right the Beatles walking across. I don't even know what it is, I'm not a big music person, whatever, that road is right, abbey Road, abbey Road, right. Okay, well, I am zero in music, I cannot play Shazam and I am terrible at that and my wife loves all those things, and I sit there and I go I don't know, so, right, so the kids knew that and they did, and I posted that like a long time ago and I said music, music is a generational understanding, like they understand the Beatles, what else they understand, like. And when I took that picture and I was like exactly like that, I was like this is cool, right? So if music is something that could be a communication piece between the generations, what else can be? And then that was the lesson for, that was the lesson for me that day, and that was the lesson for them. And it's like and everybody in that picture, by the way, is still in the club industry, right?
Speaker 3:Oh, no can.
Speaker 2:I, it's Havana and Eric and all those people from like when I only had four people, not 30 people, in the chapter right and, but they? I was like that is cool and that's something I threw out to the managers in my LinkedIn post and I was like so the approach? We start talking about the approach. It's my feeling and I can say it because I can say whatever I want. I'm an academic. You're talking about the wrong things. You're talking like a hotel. You're talking like a restaurant. Stop talking about benefits and all the other crap that every other employer talks about, and tell your story about your club. Tell the story because it's unique in every environment. Tell the story, stop interviewing and start communicating. It's different. It shouldn't be, in my opinion. It shouldn't be an interview at the club. It should be just like you do with a member. It's a tour, it's a welcoming. It's not what the other industries are. Right, stop writing job ads. Stop looking at the attraction and recruitment of your staff, as other industries do, because you're better. You're better at it, but you're telling the wrong story. You're not in competition with restaurants and hotels. You're not. You're just not.
Speaker 3:No, that's no, no, I don't disagree. So when you tell a story, are you saying, like, this club was founded in 1898 by three goats and all that?
Speaker 2:So tell the story about, and I'll go back to a well-known manager. We want to use names, so he asked me a question he asked me a question. He's like so your full-time staff, your part-time staff are the same staff. How do you get a part-time staff member to understand the club's history and not the club, I'm sorry, not the club's history, the club's culture, because they're working part-time somewhere else. Grant, that is a tough road, but you're not talking about culture. You're not talking about what members wants and needs are. You're not talking about hey, this is this member and guess what I know about this member and pull up the Jonas program. Pull it up and say this is what they eat all the time. They're seven times. This is why it's different than a restaurant, similar hotel. This person wants their martini made this way olive onion, olive onion. And we know that because they're not a transient guest. They come in all the time and this is their family members and what you get here is to build relationships. Those should be the things you're talking about and the money and all the other stuff. You're already doing that better, but you're not in competition in that way. You're in competition of selling your culture and those when we talk about fit. That's the difference. So one club culture is not like the, the private club industry culture is one, but when you get to the individual level of the club, you need to tell your story. This is what the Renaissance Club's about. This is what our members wants and needs are, I see?
Speaker 1:you have this experience, and that's a whole other conversation. Then, because it's not everybody who wants to come to join your club is a good fit. There's a lot of clubs that are like, oh, we'll take anybody who like, oh, you want to be a member here, great. But it's like, oh, they actually a good fit. So yeah there's a lot of clubs that are that, but there's also the opposite though.
Speaker 3:There's clubs that would never take anyone in and leaving great quality people on the outside because they don't take anyone in Members. You're talking about membership. Yeah, yeah, I was talking about stuff, but I do want to tie it back to students a little bit.
Speaker 1:So but for staff too, that could be the same staff and membership.
Speaker 2:The staff needs to understand the culture of the club, and I'll use this short very good.
Speaker 1:The culture is same for staff and employee, like it's for every company. It's the. Whether it's staff and or people, it's like hey, here's how we stand. If you're an employee or staff or customer, it doesn't matter, this is how we are.
Speaker 2:But the club environment. I'll say the club environment is very unique, like that, because so I mean, I'm a, I'm a whatever PhD, so I do studies on on business environments. That's what I do. So I'm at the Metropolitan Club. We were talking about Metropolitan Club. So in the club industry I've observed, unlike any other industry, that the staff will self-regulate behavior. What I mean by that is this is what I observed, so it must have been a new employee. They're coming down the stairs and at that club you can't use cell phones. Anywhere Members can't use cell phones. There is a strict no cell phone. So this employee is coming out of the club and they're on their phone and they're talking. Right, and another employee intervened and I watched this and the comment that the employee made said you know, mr Michael would be very upset if he saw you on your phone. We don't do that here. So that's one employee, not a manager, an employee intervening in a policy, and you can call it policy, but it's culture, right? So self managing, your employees are self managing that manager and I'm to get involved. Right, because they're saying this is not what's done here, it's different. I've never seen anywhere else. Matter of fact, I went up to that play and I said why did you do that? I said because that's what we do here. We help other employees succeed, and that employee was not succeeding by behaving in that manner. I'm like right, because I don't see that anywhere. No employee yet I won't say hotel companies, but right, no employee anywhere else ever seen would do that, would take the time to do that right, where you know, and they're talking about my, you know, mr Michael would be very upset with that. That's the general manager. That club Right, it's a general manager saying these are the rules, these are the, this is the box you get to play and I don't care that you're a part time employee. This is how we conduct ourselves as employees. I've never seen that in any other work environment other than private clubs. And it's and it's a testament to it's not training. You know, I think. You know, I think people misunderstand training, orientation and onboarding things that are human resources function. It's the onboarding function. What is the culture? Once they understand the culture first, everything else falls into place, and I would terminate an employee based on a cultural deficiency before I would a task or responsibility, there's no question. Well, it goes back to a little bit like. I should say go back to you, no, no. We're gonna edit that out. It's okay, I can own it oh you're. He went on a dissertation.
Speaker 3:Your Once your PhD CHE.
Speaker 1:FMPSMPR ABC Elemental PE.
Speaker 2:Elemental PE CHER SDU A lot of acronyms good for you. I wanted to ask you what acronyms and credentials, but, thank you. Oh, sure, wait, I have to go to Professor's room. Hold on.
Speaker 1:Jeff. What made me even happier is he gave me his car and I made a joke about how many letters he goes. Oh wait, that's the old one and he gave me the new one with more letters Human resources one.
Speaker 2:So wow Right because.
Speaker 3:You're sure him too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because we have to keep credential.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's not just academic over here. Let's get him academic and these letters credentialing yeah.
Speaker 3:So, if I'm so, I'm a student member and I am a student member. I'm a student in the hospitality program. I'm interested in clubs. What type of culture Is the typical student looking for? That's going to like, what's going to say this club fits for me and I know it's not all things for all people but in general terms, is there something?
Speaker 1:that's good for looking for. I don't think this is my spot to like check in, but I think this is where Clubs should and can, which is how they can be different In how they can separate each other, like from like. What separates a club from another club? Like, oh, we have our things. Like no, like you can be a little bit different. You can have a personality. You could, you know fit to whether it's a certain I don't want to say demographic or anything, but you can have a certain personality. And to where? Now I think a little bit, whether it's a club or a company, they're kind of forming into, they're taking their, they're accepting more of their shape, whatever that means, and like they're just their own thing. And I think now some clubs, whether it's from like the membership and also employment perspective, it's all that same sort of they're all slowly like going, oh, we can look, we can be a little bit different. We don't want to take everybody in and you know we hopefully want to attract a certain not just membership but also a certain Employment ship, which is why I asked what type of culture like?
Speaker 3:what are students? Because that's what we're struggling for is hospitality by the students who are interested in clubs. How do we get them?
Speaker 1:So I think, it's the clubs that are willing to be a little bit more open about stuff like, hey, like this is our personality, sure, hey, we just enjoy, it doesn't matter what. Like, oh, my god, we love pickleball owning right, yeah, like you know, it doesn't matter what it is, but just like, put that out there, because what the worst is going to happen is like no one's gonna come and be like, oh, you guys don't like pickleball enough. Like no one's gonna. Sure, you know what I mean. So just putting out information and just being about who you are and who your people are, who your membership is, you know, I think it was such a private thing, and a private club is a private thing, but it's also a public thing in a weird way. And there's gonna be the, there's gonna be the clubs and everything that you know stick to and they don't want to be a part of.
Speaker 3:Well, clubs are big things in the community, like, yeah, we're, you know, major employers in the community. You know we employ over a hundred people in the in the hydro season. That's a small business, but it's a larger small business. Some clubs employ 300 people or more, you know, obviously you pay a good amount in taxes, but we also have a charitable component that give back to high schools and local community charities.
Speaker 2:So I think I think your point, one of the one of the things I point out is you know, why did you choose the university you went to? What was it that attracted to you? So I start there. So what was it? You know, I bring up that same conversation when we talk about clubs. So what is it so when my so when we teach the class, it's easy. So let's talk about it in the context of an academic environment. One of the things they do at the end of every week is writing a reflection piece, and I ask four questions, and one of the questions is did you feel connection with the club? Did you feel connection with the manager? And those are very interesting responses. Facilities are not the driver, it's the human connection, that's the driver felt a strong connection. And then the next question is under what circumstances or why would you reconnect with this manager? Right, internship work, right. So I'm leading them to the next communication piece because they, in my mind, they have to. They have to create the first communications, not up to the manager at that point, because we've introduced and we brought them, brought them to that. Now, if it's not in that academic context, I would go back to my previous statement. What's more familiar to them? Did they grow up around boats? Did they grow up around golf? Do they like the game golf? No, I played tennis, all right, well, let's start there. Let's start with a familiarity point and then I might have a conversation with them to get to know them a little bit better. And I'll tell this story that. So at conference and it's two people we both know, it was like good fellows. I could not get them together. He didn't have time, she didn't want to talk to them, but I knew, and I think to the conversation we had about what is the faculty members role or or that key component. I knew her and I know that now with him I went over to because I had a student choose him to do an internship and I didn't make it and I didn't know about it, right, because she didn't keep me in the look sure, so I didn't know. And then I placed the student with him and he was in the successful match and I'm like no, this time it is, and you know this person because that student branded themselves right. Oh, I know that person. But I said sit down, have a five minute conversation. He's like well, she's gonna go work for X club right and I'm like it's not a good fit. I'm telling you she's not gonna go there and I'm telling you this in confidence because that manager told me that very nothing to do with her ability to do the job, it's just not but I think that's that's super important, though, to.
Speaker 3:The takeaway, though, is, as a manager, it's especially that piece right like it's not about the facilities, it's the people. So that's why it's so important that managers not even just general managers, food and beverage directors, people and key leadership pros of the club go and make the connections with these people, because that's how you're gonna get them to be interested in your facility, and I don't think we do a good enough job at that but I think it's.
Speaker 2:It's a two-way street. So and I made that comment before don't be afraid. If a manager wants to take, be proactive about it. Reach out to the faculty members at the university, in their local community or their high schools or middle school we talked about, because I'm telling you from my perspective, that's a godsend, that that's, that's a lecture I don't have to do, or whatever it is. I'm not saying I'm that, it's a I'm not gonna do my job, but it's, it's a way of it's a student perspective. They don't always believe, with the faculty members saying, right, it's like I'm, like a parent, the parents saying this and I don't believe you. But then when a manager says the same thing and they turn around and look at you, I'm like, yeah, duh, right, I'm, I'm here for a reason. But it's much more meaningful when it's coming from the outside than inside and I think any, any manager that reads out to a faculty member and the faculty member doesn't respond keep going, how many yeses, I mean how many? Knows you have to get to a yes, right, or it's the wrong faculty member. 14, 14, tootsie pop. It's a tootsie pop thing, I mean. But it's like you found the wrong faculty member. So but I think that I think the perspective is, when we had these conversations before, is they go to the dean. Don't go to the dean, right, you go to the faculty member. You find the champion. The champion will go to the dean and they'll set set the whole system up, and it may just be classroom visits, it might be tours, it might be. How can I help you explain something other than hotels and restaurants to your students and I and I and I'll add this, I just everybody thinks they can teach right managers in the classroom is a bad idea, in my opinion, is a bad idea. Why would I bring a manager in the classroom in my environment so they can see what I see, which are students scrolling through the?
Speaker 3:phone, we wouldn't bring you. We wouldn't bring you to our board meeting that have here run this right, right, like bring them to the club where you feel comfortable.
Speaker 2:I mean, I cannot tell you how, how impactful that is in terms of students future decisions about employment. It's the turning point. I mean we had the whole discussion about Joey right, our, our student, and he's still texting me and he's like you know how's the, how's the, because he knows what I'm doing, that my students know I'm doing this. How's it going? Like did you get there right? Took me forever to get there. Like that's great, but it's the relationship that the faculty member has with the students. But I think the club managers can have that same relationship with the faculty with the faculty and with the students because you don't care after you get them to the club. You built the relationship with the student, right. You want the next opportunity, the faculty member, to get to the next group, right, but I'm like the fact that the club managers, like, what am I going to talk about? I said, well, this week we're going to talk about club governance. Well, I don't know anything about that. What do you know about food and beverage? So we'll switch around. I don't care, right, but the most important conversation is your needs. Make sure you tell them you do internships, talk about your internship programs. I have part-time jobs. You want to be on all-call staff, right, get them working, get them employed, and you just roll from there. And then the next semester, hey, let's do this again. It's the repetitive nature of you getting to the very beginning with the faculty member to get the students to the club, to employ, and then you have a story tell because then you use those students that you employed to go back. Sure, that's it. I mean, that's how I built the chapter when I started with Kevin Duffy. Kevin Duffy is my first CCM oh no, kidding right my first chapter president that became a CCM. I have a picture of me pointing at his star at the conference and I brought him a gift at the conference. I had a gift from Johnson Wells, right, right. So you really brought me a gift. Absolutely about you give. And he that's a great story. Carl Hubebe, who was the first internship, or he did to talk about the depth of club managers and creating that culture. So Carl made him read a book well funny to say this.
Speaker 3:So I was the chair of the New England chapter scholarship committee when Kevin was in that application process and I remember his letter was about his relationship with Carl Hubebe. And when I see Carl, who's now at a different club and Kevin's at a different club too, that's always the first thing that pops in my mind is what Kevin thought of.
Speaker 2:But here's the great story they're both at the same club. Now, oh, they came back. Kevin came back. He was at Houston Country Club. Right, he came back to New England to work for Carl. He's at Carl's club still in spring Lake spring whatever, yeah, right, and no, no, it's in Connecticut oh, okay in. Connecticut in, like Western Connecticut, but the funny story about that is so Kevin came back from internship, right, and he's like oh, I learned so much. But you know, he made me read a book a week and blah, blah, blah, we had a. We read a book a week and we sit down, have lunch and we talk about it. I said you think that's over and I guess what do you mean? I go, wait, wait for it. He came home and he texted me. He said guess what's up my door? I said a FedEx package from Carl with a book. That's the difference. That's, if you want to really look at differences, that's it. Carl knew, not now, but sometime. This Kevin was going to work for him, right, he's the clubhouse manager at the right because he went to go to Houston. Yeah, he was restaurant operations manager. Then the mark Beto came there and and that's, I mean that's a whole other funny conversation. I said to Kevin, I texted him I go, beto's coming to your club, you better find a place to hide, right, because Kevin wasn't very outgoing but great numbers guy. And and I told Beto the same thing, I told get. I said you got to find this kid. He's great, you're gonna love him because I found him, found him in the basement doing it right. So it's. I mean they're funny stories but they're so. It's the connections. It's the connections of you know the faculty member, getting to know the managers. I really think that's what the faculty role is, because they know the students. But now how do you make that connection? Connect the two right? Or getting to know students personality I'll have them take a free online personality profile test, right? Why? not because they don't know themselves, they really don't. They change your college, I mean, they change dramatically through that. So that's the that. The cultural fit of what would what we were talking about before is really, I think, the key.
Speaker 3:What a success, the successful placement what have you found in the relationships that you've kept over time? People who were successful in their chapter got into clubs and left. Why did they leave?
Speaker 2:So and we've talked about that a couple of times I was thinking about that. I think, two things. One, when they were in it at the time, I think they thought it was a school thing and it wasn't really career. They didn't look at it as a career thing. They looked at a job, not a career, and a club on campus. So I think that's the faculty of IZs role to say, hey, shake them up a little bit, whatever. But I think it's they made the decision that really it wasn't the right environment for them and it wasn't. I mean, we kind of joked about when they get a career day and all of a sudden somebody throws something bright and shiny in front of them and maybe they lose their focus. But it's just they made the final decision that it wasn't the right fit for them. But what I have found is so they do the grind, they go to a hotel, they go to a restaurant and I get alums I know you don't remember me right, like I don't want to use the name, but they had a very unique name. I'm like how do I not remember you right? And he's, like you know, talk to me about this club environment. This guy was a regional district manager for a restaurant group and he was burned out right. So it's two kinds of managers. It's the ones like you that new club industry, because you did it at school and you had a faculty advisor and you knew it early on, or they circle back to it. So I think planting the seed is just as important. I understand the frustration you guys put in the time, you know, and the effort and the scholarships and all that and they go away. I think it's not forever. I think they will come back because they're gonna work and they're gonna be like what happens is life happens right. They get married, they have kids and now they understand what work-life balance really is and now they're looking for the industry segment that they'll deliver.
Speaker 3:Well, I guess I want to make sure that we are addressing. Is it work-life balance that we're not providing? We all hear about it, but are we actually delivering on that? Like it's important to not only say, hey, we're not a 60 hour a week grind job anymore, because that's how I grew up. You know we're saying that, but are we living that and allowing our staff to do that, and are we doing a good enough job of getting that message out? Like, hey, that's how we used to be, but clubs aren't like that, because no one else is anymore and you can work from home in clubs depending on what your job is and you don't have. Like we're switching here to flex time in the off season, so probably everyone's gonna work about 32 and the salary. People work 32 hours, gonna be quiet and you can take unlimited vacation time as long as you get your job done. So, like, do a lot of clubs? A lot of clubs probably do that, but are we letting students know In the general public that we have that type of work environment? I don't know if you're hearing any of that.
Speaker 2:I think yes is the answer to that. I think they students are very skeptical. They don't believe, like, what you tell them sometimes and it's like okay, my message is always you're in a hospitality industry, you're gonna work hard, but in certain industry segments you're gonna work harder for longer periods of time. In the private club industry segment, there are gonna be periods in which it's not as busy, but it depends on type of club. Right, yacht club in New England you're gonna be closed for four months and get those quote members. The polar bear club right, they're gonna sail on ice, remember Right so what are?
Speaker 3:no, no, no no, no, the ones that stay, yeah.
Speaker 2:The ones that stay that sail where the Coast Guard doesn't go out right, you're gonna have them. But basically you know you're getting a salary position for a year and you're not really working. You're working but you're not memory management.
Speaker 3:It's a nine to five job for four months a year. Right.
Speaker 2:But you don't have that in hotel, you certainly don't have that in restaurant. There's no downtime. So I think that I think it's a balance, because if you tell that to a student they're like, oh, I don't have to work so hard, right, and then they do a summer internship at, like Myers Park or Cherokee Town Country where they're working crazy.
Speaker 3:Whether it's six and a half million dollars and F and B and three months right.
Speaker 2:Right, but they're not there in January, right, but when nothing's happening. But I think it's so. I think a student and my message to students has to do with career exploration the depth in which you are willing to explore an industry segment will come back to you tenfold. So what are you willing to look at to really either find the fit or find the industry segment? Now I'll talk about private clubs over any industry segment, because I've worked it and I lived it. I still live it now, but it's you know, the student that leaves, I think, will eventually come back. I mean, that's my feeling and it's not from something drew them not away from clubs but to wherever they went, and I think it was a person and not an industry segment. I think it was. I needed to be back home, so I went back there. I mean there are all these other variables that are not industry related. That I think. I think the industry does a great job with that. They do a great job with the messaging. I think you have high expectations of what your closure rate is right. So I would go back and look at applicants that received scholarships. Right. Outreach, it's all about outreach. You're on a scholarship committee and you had somebody that you were a scholarship, go out on LinkedIn and find out what they're doing, right? You'd be amazed. I mean, you don't know what people's minds are. You go out, go on LinkedIn. Hey, I know you don't remember me. I was on scholarship. you know house life going whatever you know what about clubs and I don't know. That's kind of out there. But you know, I think if that is a concern, you could go out and find out what's going on with those people. You could do a survey, you could do whatever you want. No, I mean, I can tell you that people have left hotels to go to other people. People go in the hotel industry and leave the hotel industry, leave the hospitality industry. People go to restaurants and are in the restaurant industry as they progress through life and get married and have kids, leave the hospitality industry for another industry segment. I don't think that happens in clubs.
Speaker 3:Depends. I mean, I think I've seen a lot of people who I know, who left the industry for they might work in a club related industry. So they're not working at a club but they might be working at club benchmarking members first One of those type of companies, so they can kind of still stand, you know.
Speaker 2:So they're not in operation. There can be an arms reach.
Speaker 3:And I guess it's leveraging your connections hopefully to make a sale. But there's also people who are in insurance and real estate. People business but it's not private clubs.
Speaker 2:Do you think members have an influence on that? Because I've heard that. I've heard that in some clubs.
Speaker 3:I think other people don't like the nights and weekends. Because there are nights and weekends, get over it. To me, though, I couldn't imagine doing a nine to five, like I can't get out of my house before nine.
Speaker 2:Most days you can't teach a class before nine Right, I don't teach before eight, but like I, could work at.
Speaker 3:You know, if this was the 1960s, I could work that second and third shift. That'd be my jam at the factory because I'm a night person. But I hear that you know. Oh, I don't want to work the holidays.
Speaker 2:I don't really work that many holidays.
Speaker 3:I work days a turn Like it goes back to the messaging. I think we have to be very mindful of what we say and how we say in delivering on the promises Like you might have to work Thanksgiving, but you're not gonna work Christmas. You might have to work some weekends, but not gonna work every weekend Like every. You know it used to be like oh, you got one weekend off a month. I think that's kind of an old school way of thinking. Like you don't work Sundays.
Speaker 2:I think clubs have the flexibility that they could create that schedule. So you could theoretically do a four day work week, and I think you have to, and this goes across the board. I have this conversation with every industry segment. I'm like you need to understand your employees. So you have people who don't want to work Christmas. Who are those people? What are their demographics? I worked Christmas all the time because I didn't celebrate Christmas Right. I don't want to get into a personal Jewish no. No he grew up poor. So I worked, like I worked for a chain restaurant company that would literally do this. They would send two posters out to every regional store and said we're open for the holidays, come and enjoy your family with us, or we're closed so that our staff can enjoy their time with the family. So we would go to each district, we'd figure it out and we'd staff three out of the five stores. That's what chain restaurants do. That's what we did, right, but understanding that there are some people who would work the holidays versus some I'm sorry employees that would work the holidays versus employees that want to spend time with the family.
Speaker 3:Some of the best times I've ever had were going to a restaurant Well at work on a holiday, but I've gone to. When I lived in Boston there was a lot of places that were open Christmas. They didn't open until like five o'clock Christmas day and there'd be a good crowd in there having the time of their lives and everyone was having a blast Because it was a secular family. Right, it's 100% and I think when you're 22, you're like oh wait, yeah, Family sucks sometimes.
Speaker 2:So it's a good escape. Well, the funny part was Look at all the demographics that we have. I mean, I brought in religious connotation.
Speaker 3:No, but that's part of it. I mean, certainly when I lived in Boston it was certainly a thing Right. The young people might want to work, people also like money, the boys that need the money.
Speaker 2:They want to work. I mean, I'm just saying, but also that's not who we like.
Speaker 3:I don't think and I know I don't do a good enough job saying that to students when I have the opportunity to speak to them. We are not that. We are not those beasts anymore. It was like it's nights, weekends, holidays. It's 70 days a week, like I've been the joke a million times. My mentor in this whole business. He would. I would get into work at 10, 10, 30 in the morning and he got there at 8.30. And then walk in the door and he'd say good afternoon Because I got there later than him. But he also left it for Right and I was there until 10. Right.
Speaker 2:So, and again, I think it's the community. We talked about communication. So you are in the talent business. You're not in the employment business. You attract talent. So I have somebody who's talented in whatever. It is Right. You talked about good at marketing, good at whatever. I'm looking for talent. I've heard this multiple times. Well, I got hired and they made up a job title for me. It's a made up job title, right? I can remember Margaret. Margaret is the one who first said that they just hired me. Because they hired me, you have the ability, through your budgetary process, to create bench strength. So you're going to hire for talent. Then you got to figure out what that person needs in terms of a we talked about I hate work-life balance. Tell me, show me what your work-life, what your work week, would look like, right? So it's got to be four or five days, something like that. Right, what days? What are they? I can't give you every week. I can't get off. But without getting too personal, show me your preference for work. I know you guys can make that work. I know that restaurants and hotels can't make that work because of how they look and then so when we talk about a shift, this is the thinking that we got to break the paradigm of old school. So a shift for back of house has always been eight hours. Why A shift for front of house is not eight hours? It's probably four hours and it could be a split shift because I got to take the kid to school. You have the ability, because of the nature of your business, to look into that and say we can do that, it's not that much harder. It's one extra conversation. But we track talent. We don't recruit for employees.
Speaker 3:No, that's here.
Speaker 2:It's a different way of presenting your story and successful companies. Employers of choice that's the term I use. Employers of choice, use that communication style or those words, because words are important. And when students here, I have choices of a choice. When we talk about academia, I am forever hooked into curriculum. At Johnson and Wells, I was chair of the curriculum committee for all four campuses blah right and students want choice, so we have 27 electives they can take. Really, what are you going to learn? I rather tell them these are the courses you have to take. But when it comes to employment, and if you are the more flexible employer or the employer of choice because the employee gets to choose I'm not talking about remote work, I'm not talking about so they have to work. What are the days, what are the hours, what are the preferences? And we're at least having the conversation. That's that you can do because you're not held to a corporate standard. Each independent club runs their staff the way they run their staff.
Speaker 3:So why don't you feel that you're getting the support from your university? I never said that. You say that I love my university?
Speaker 2:No, but I feel that.
Speaker 3:But all right, not you, but in general I get the feeling that universities are not supporting the club-interim path as much as they support a larger hospitality.
Speaker 2:So I can answer that in two ways. One I'm very fortunate at my university that None of them are going to listen to this. No, no, no, it's fine. I'm very fortunate because of our program and our depth of offering. Sure, I only have to focus on clubs. I'm sorry, I get to only focus on clubs. So other faculty advisors they have to do the smaller programs. They have to talk about hotels, they have to talk about restaurants, they have to talk about clubs and they are beholden to those employers. We kind of talked about that with the gaming industry earlier before we started recording. But so now if I'm in a smaller program, I have to cater to all of that and those employees or those employers. So I'm not saying if I had a student who wasn't right for club, I wouldn't say, hey, I think you're a better match for hotels, but I have the luxury of doing that. Other faculty advisors and other faculty, unless they have a club class and they teach private club management within their degree program, they really don't have that luxury. But what you could say to that faculty member is we can educate you on that. This is probably a better choice for a large percentage of your students. And what's different is we have more opportunities now while they're in school than the other inter-register segments. We have a student membership. I don't care if you have a student chapter or not, they can still be student members and you can get to them while they're in school. I mean, imagine getting a student a conference. I mean you have all these tools that the other industry segments don't Hotel doesn't have that. They don't have a national conference. They're not as focused on students. So that's the story you tell to that faculty member. Hey look, and that's why I talked about so. One of the things I would do if I was a club manager, before I even started talking about trying to figure out students, is I would take the faculty on a tour of a club.
Speaker 3:That's why that is successful. So invite the whole hospitality department to take.
Speaker 2:That's when you call the dean Say hey look, it's going to cost you zero. The foundation is going to pay for a motor coach. We're going to take you to three clubs in our area. What day do you want to do that on? We want to take you to a tour and then we're going to feed you and we're going to talk about the private club industry. And the first time I did that I had no idea. I guess it was when Jeff was new. Jeff flew up so it was Jeff Morgan. It was Jeff Morgan and Randy Ruder was president at the time. That was the first time I ever met Randy Ruder. All of a sudden they showed up at Debtom Country Club. We did Debtom, we did TCC, but I think any region could do that. Where there are, you have unbelievable leadership within your organization, nationally and regionally, and the other industry segments don't really have the structure that you guys have. That's a story that should be told. I start the students out with the website. The faculty should be looking at the website and they're like oh my god right, because they don't know how big the industry is. They think it's like I don't know what they think. They think it's their local club. They don't understand. There's 3,000 clubs.
Speaker 3:And international and over 7,000 members Right.
Speaker 2:And I tell students. So I ask students, ask me so how many managers you think will meet at a national conference? I'm like I don't know. 2,000, 2,500. Are you kidding me? I go, you don't understand. There's an international conference, plus the business expo, plus all the right. It's all the ice cream at me. And the cherry on top, we have student programming. But they can go to any educational session.
Speaker 3:They want to.
Speaker 2:So there are these stories that we're not telling, where you have value, where the other industry segments don't have any value. They want to hire employees. They're not talking about education beyond college, you're talking about so I describe your CCM, your certification as a master's degree in private club management. I will talk to a student. If they are engaged and they know private clubs, I might even talk them out of going to get a master's degree and do their CCM first. A strong student I'd allana allana to both. She's doing both right. So a student that can handle that. I mean because I'm not going to say don't go to a master's degree, but not for everyone. But if you are focused on clubs, you should be focused on your CCM and I would tell you not to do that Because your programming is as good as any master's degree and I've had these conversations with Jason.
Speaker 3:So the only difference is, and I'll say I and my peers, I think we all value it, Especially now. I got mine a while ago. It gets harder and harder every year to achieve that because they changed the program to adapt to today's realities and they also want to make sure that people see this is a value add to your club. To get this, it's not just you attend 25 meetings and you get certification. Yeah, I view it on par with a master's degree.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. It's the gold standard of the industry. But so what outsiders don't understand is the competencies right. The competencies are basically the competencies you would get in a master's degree, but they're delivered.
Speaker 3:Can't work by the clubs, right.
Speaker 2:So the only difference is you're not an accreditation body that can issue a degree. Ok, well, if I'm somebody, I am a manager that is going to stay in private clubs. To your point, well, that's what I'm going to do. And we never even talk about above that. You have three or four certifications above that level and wine society and all these other components that none of the other industry segments have. None of them have it. And so, to your point, how do I explain that to a faculty member? How do I explain that to my dean? I can't. I kind of do it a little bit at a time. That's taken me eight years. Eight years because administration's changed or whatever. But I will go back. If I was a club manager, I would go back to the same simple approach Get the dean, get the provost, get whoever you can from administration and get to a club with the students so they can see the students' excitement and they can see it in their eyes as it's happening.
Speaker 3:Right. Well, I wonder, even from a smaller scale, the annual meeting in New England, the annual meeting could you bring that same group of people to that? Because then they can see the students getting the money that gives away and see the other universities getting that money, but also seeing that, because if they are, we award all of our managers of the year award and student development and all those things and they can say, oh well, this is a bigger deal than.
Speaker 2:So to your point, and I think this is a faculty advisor and member director discussion. So what we do? I bring as many students as I can. That's why we do fundraising. That's why we do so. Some years we have to pay whatever it is for it. Other years it depends who's hosting the meeting. So this year it's at Walsden. Charles said bring as many people as you want, bring them all. You got 31 students here. You should bring them all. I invite parents of scholarship recipients. You've been there when I've brought students. They're supposed to go for free. Well, they do, but when I, when I call Laura Ryder, say a great 45 students, but what?
Speaker 3:I know, but I know that, so I might.
Speaker 2:Dean. I brought my boss first so he could see, right, and it's, it's great, because the club managers know me and they know what I'm doing and you think we're doing great things, so they'll come on boss. I don't know about that, mack, how you should get rid of them. Right, right, right so, but he gets to see the environment, then he gets to see the students getting checks and the parents are there. So last time I up the game we had the Dean there, right, so they could see the students, the parents, anybody involved in that, in that meeting. I Would suggest that any club manager Reach out to the faculty and if the faculty is not involved, you call. The student is really who is getting the scholarship To get their parents name right, because we've had one, one of the necklace meetings. We had three sets of parents right, because I you know it's hard to even explain the administrators this is uncapped funds. So all the students has to do is work at a club for 300 hours or intern. They have to be a member of the student chapter and they can apply and then they get the check.
Speaker 3:They get the check doesn't go to the university, it goes to the camp, right and go to well, some your region.
Speaker 2:That's the way it works. It works different in different regions. But, yeah, they get the money for Continued education. Now I explained that, as that could be BMI money Doesn't have to be John Sewell's money. Sure, right, sure, that's any education and it's we're past it. So one of things and this is going down a rabbit hole a little bit one of things seem a could do and I talked to other people about this is a student loan debt. That's a huge issue. So I'm an individual club. What can I do to help student loan debt? I don't know, that's your decision. We talked about it at a national level, right that there is something they could do. So I would look that that as retention, as a retention tool. So let's talk about your student debt, let's talk about how many years you stay versus bonus, because you have bonus programs, right.
Speaker 3:But so, rather than here's your end of year, your end of the year 2500 and five, whatever that we're gonna pay, that is, to debt with that you stay with me for five years, your student debt may be wiped out, right?
Speaker 2:I don't know there's. What I know is private clubs can be much more innovative, because they're not, can't come. We're flexible, way more flexible than sure, right? So you know clubs. I say clubs aren't in competition with each other, with members, I don't say that with employees, right? So whatever program you can develop that makes you an employer of choice, absolutely so yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3:I mean, I've had the conversation at the national level they could.
Speaker 2:There are companies that create program Recognition and reward programs. Those companies are starting to take on student debt as as a program Right.
Speaker 1:How so.
Speaker 2:Well, so, so they may look at. Alright, so you have recognition and reward and Okay, whatever the the pin is or whatever that is. So now what can we, from a human resources standpoint, offer as a benefit? So this is a benefits discussion we will, as a company, in term, in in in connection with long-term retention, create a payment, a student debt payment relief program. I mean, I know the government does it, but independent businesses are doing it. I mean, if you look at, so this isn't and it's actually not even new law firms and accounting firms, big firms, as Part of the hiring process right make pay off student debt right. Fortune go law school.
Speaker 1:Why not right?
Speaker 2:big firms may say it's part of your contract because you're not gonna make any money until you make partner, we'll add a little incentive, will pay off your student debt. Right, because then it wasn't a big deal. Now it's a huge deal because and I'm I mean, I'm sure I'll get slapped for it but we're paying too much for education, right, and it's just because of the other, of the of what, of the context, of the matrix, of what we've created, where Education is more expensive now than it was before. I Don't necessarily understand that, because there's a lot of way to what? A lot of ways to deliver education, but it is what it is. Student students, I mean, I'm saying two years ago there was a lot of a lot of discussion about you don't need a college degree. Well, okay, you can say what you want, any bachelor's degree, I don't care what you get. You're gonna earn a million dollars more by having that bachelor's degree of your life. Tuck Master's degree more. Right, because there will be. I mean, if I'm the employment side, there may be a Because of what industry segment you're in, it could be a requirement for the job, and then you don't go any higher. But to not have a college degree. Forget about the degree itself. The college experience is almost worth as much, at least where we are in the hospitality business for sure, right, because all the things we're talking about. I Just you know to say you could get the education, education elsewhere for cheaper. Online certificates, online programs I get it. That's not Credential faculty member, that's been in the industry for 20 years. They can pick up the phone. I had a very short story. I got a student currently he is not an operation, right, this Okay, cut, cut, three, two, one. So this student's not gonna be an operation, it doesn't want to be an operation, it's a great numbers person. So I'm like I'm thinking about this. I got the BB going on my head. I said send me an email, no email, just in the, just in the subject line, right, the word oracle, okay, oracle, oracle, big company. They're in the hospitality business, they're writing algorithms for Hospitality businesses. Example I always give is you are an airport food and beverage outlet and the flight gets canceled. Flight gets canceled and they're gonna tell you how many more tuna fish sandwiches you should put out To maximize your sales. This kid flipped over that because that's what I want to do, because that's what I want to do, right, so these other little chemicals of the business that have nothing to do with Operations, but it's just as important student, that doesn't the online certificates, the online programming and Get their million, you know whatever it is, but never gonna make that connection, ever, ever, ever gonna make that connection outside the college environment For that kid or whoever's paying for that. Kids college, that is gonna be that kids career. And it happened in a moment happened a classroom happened because that faculty member was listening to the student and Brought in something else that was not on the syllabus, in the textbook, all of that. That's what clubs about. Club is not a textbook, textbook class. It's just not. I don't, I don't ever want to do a lecture In one of my classes about clubs. Why would I? I Was an operator, but I'm not an operator. Let me call it. Let's spend three hours with Jeff He'll never forget it, that's right.
Speaker 3:That's not true. Every day's an adventure here.
Speaker 2:Jeff once forgot our whole university at a At a scholarship dinner.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, by the way, no, I did not really.
Speaker 2:Early on, early on, but it was great you came on the mic after everybody. I was already on the buffet Putting big shrimp in my. I tell my kids to bring plastic bags and put them in the pocket Right, because they've never seen food like that at a neck. My business dinner and I'm on the buffet. I put shrimp in and I got my little, my little squeeze bottle with the cocktail sauce in. Jeff comes back on the bike.
Speaker 3:He said oh, by the way.
Speaker 2:Jocelyn Wells is here. Hey, thank you, professor Samo. I'm like, look at me. I was at the buffet.
Speaker 3:Well, I was. I have no memory of this happening. That's embarrassing. You had a big entrance that day you know, it's all it's really. I like the big entrance. I Want to be acknowledged at the beginning, and then I peek early and it's over.
Speaker 2:I.
Speaker 1:My goodness, you made it. You're here to the end. I Should have just left the whole like three hours up and said whatever. But if you got this far, godspeed Message me, hello at private club radio and I will send you something. I'll do something special. If you got this far and listen to the entire episode, hit me up. Hello at private club radio, danny Corby. I'm on LinkedIn. I will give you something. I don't know what, but I'll give you this. You made it. Take Mount Everest. It's no Joe Rogan, but close. Hopefully you got something, if you could, if you listen to that whole thing. It did not get one little nugget, I am so sorry. Then you can message me to and I will give you something, or listening to that. No, I'm kidding. It was one of my longest episodes, so it just makes me laugh. It was really hard to edit, but thank you all for listening. Really appreciate you at the listener thing at the borders means the world Do fun interviews like this. It's really cool, very fortunate. Thanks for being here. You have it done so already. Like, share, subscribe. Like I said, if you got this far, I appreciate you more than works. Until next time, catch on.