329: Board Chats: The Business of Bunkers w/ Chris Coen, Glen Oaks Country Club

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hey everybody, welcome back to this episode of Board Chats here on Private Club Radio brought to you by our friends and partners, concert Golf Partners, boutique owner operators of luxury golf and country clubs nationwide. If you your club or a friend's club, even enemies club, any club you know that might be looking for some recapitalization, head on over to ConcertGolfPartnerscom, set up a confidential phone call with Peter Nula and see if you are a fit. One of the best parts about being a Concert Golf property is no more assessments. Members get no more assessment fees. What that's amazing. And on the flip side, concert Golf is not just about acquiring and taking over clubs that might need recapitalization. But if you're a club that's looking to get out of being member owned and you're looking for a reputable organization that will come in and keep your traditions, keep your club, keep your culture, keep your identity, head on over to ConcertGolfPartnerscom, set up a call with Peter Nula and I guarantee it's going to be extremely fruitful. And this episode of Board Chats I get to chat with Chris Cohen, who's the director of agronomy over at Glen Oaks Country Club in Des Moines, iowa. Now, I know there's plenty of Glen Oaks Country Clubs. There's one right by me here in Clarksum in Pennsylvania it's like two miles from my house there's a few of them. We have a funny little inside joke about that. But in this episode we're talking with Chris and this is a Concert Golf property and Chris has been at Glen Oaks for over 30 years. So we chat about his 30 year evolution of golf management agronomy, particularly focusing on staffing and ownership changes. We kind of dive into the insights into the challenges of attracting and retaining talented employees, especially in the golf industry world. We explore the strategies to engage younger generations and promote golf management as an extremely viable career. We talk about real life examples from ConcertGolfPartners on preserving club culture during acquisitions and really the importance of national networks like ConcertGolfPartners to provide career growth opportunities. Please welcome to this episode of Board Chats here on Private Club Radio. Director of agronomy at Glen Oaks Country Club in Des Moines, iowa. Ladies and gentlemen, chris Cohen, so we just walked out of your office with your small team. How has that developed over the 30 years since you've been there?

Speaker 2: 2:43

It's been a changing deal, I think throughout the whole industry. I think when I first came into the business, there were a plethora of people that were trying to get into the business. The golf world was going crazy, with a lot of new development, lots of students available, and so we were bringing people on and we were flipping assistance superintendents through fairly quickly, trying to get them experience and get them to the next job. But then as things kind of progressed and the market kind of went away for opportunities to be superintendents, then we lost students over time that were entering the field and that's become a lot different and now our philosophy changed and now we're trying to make sure that we get good people hired and we try to keep them around as long as we can. So over the last probably 15 years that's become a big part of my goal is to get people here, make sure they're paid well and we can keep them here as long as we can, and that's worked out pretty well, and so my current staff has been with me over 10 years on average and my key staff, but they're all to that age. Now We'll start flipping those positions. But definitely the job market is one of the most challenging things at this point in the industry.

Speaker 1: 4:21

So I think I did just remember too, going back I think it was we were chatting a little bit about the different ownership types that we were going that the progress was. So you said it was member owned and then it was club court for a little bit in the 90s, and then what was the other progression?

Speaker 2: 4:42

Yeah, yeah. So the club. You know we had a joint venture agreement with Club Corp and they were the managing partner for like three years and then the membership bought them back out and probably another short period of time. Do you remember why? At that point they felt I think the membership felt that they were seeing how well Clubcorp was doing and they felt like they could manage it. They took some of the changes that Clubcorp made and they were going to move forward with that. I think that's when the downturn and the economy hit there as well. They had a bad timing of that. The club ended up in foreclosure. Then we were managed by. That would have been I can't tell you the exact date, but it's probably been like 13 years ago this group of three individuals here that live on the property got together and they bought the club from the bank. They really, at that point, really turned things around, put a lot of capital investment in the club as they progressed along. In fact, one of the partners in that group passed away suddenly. I think they just didn't really probably have an exit strategy in concert golf. I think they'd been talking to them it was my understanding for some time. I really think they saw them as a great option to continue the progress of the club moving forward. The two of those investors are still living here on property and it was important to them, I think, to sell it to a group that would continue to protect the investment that they'd made. That's for sure.

Speaker 1: 6:51

What's happened so far that was a fun part of our quick chat yesterday before we did our interview here was you made it very clear, as you showed, it wasn't a distressed club situation. This was, hey, just for whatever reason. It's not a capital thing. I think a lot of people think, oh, because somebody was bought, we were talking about this. Just because, oh, someone's bought, oh, are things okay? Things must be really bad. It's like no, just because someone buys doesn't mean they're being bought and sold doesn't mean they're in bad, bad positions. There was one other club what was it? Another concert club, which this is where it becomes. So what's the word I'm looking for? Because what you just said, they wanted to. Your club wanted to continue its story, its legacy. This wasn't just a transaction. There was another concert club that I was chatting with and they said the same exact thing. There was little details, that it was about the best for the club and not these little tiny I don't even say roadblocks, but speed bumps. What club was it? I'm going to have to go back because they're going to get upset. Finally, I'll say what club it is. It was. Let me check one second. It was the Wisconsin club and it was episode 276. So how long has concert been been with you for?

Speaker 2: 8:28

So I think this is a second season, full season, with concert and you know, as I'm old, I'm an old man now, so times relative it may have been three, but I think it's two seasons and that you know, that's been, that's been a good thing. You know, change is always change. It's always can be difficult and stressful. But I was excited and I think that's kind of what the investors saw in concert golf is that they really weren't this huge Corporation that was gonna come in and and just do like a cookie cutter approach to the management of the club. I think they they recognize right away the. You know, every situation is different and in this situation they didn't really have to come in and make a whole lot of changes To, to what we've been doing and I think that's just a testament to the way it had been run previously and and, yeah, so that them taking that approach and obviously for my standpoint it was it was great to see that they're just not, you know, they were there to protect the investment that they're making in the club by continuing to, you know, put capital into the club and Continuing on, you know, with strategic planning and that sort of thing is as to what? What's best to For the club going forward and I'm sure for them to, in protecting their investment here?

Speaker 1: 10:08

We in, and I would assume you know some people would possibly get nervous and things as well, because you think here Comes somebody who just, you know, acquired us, bought us. Now they're going to want to, you know, recoup there, I their investment as quick as possible. So all the problem switch suppliers and vendors, like you know. I'm sure that the anxiety and stress is there, but sounds like that wasn't, wasn't there for this.

Speaker 2: 10:32

So yeah, those things were. I mean, those things are mostly positive. And then in having that corporation behind you and all the support and I've already had a lot of support through regional superintendents and nothing but helpful Support and you know the national definitely. You know we did change from vendors but it's really, you know, saving us a lot of money and giving us more money to spend elsewhere to our budget. So we have some great national agreements that I just, you know my time in the business site I was Very happy to see the opportunity to make that money go farther so they cut cost in a good way, not like coming in and cutting it going.

Speaker 1: 11:21

okay, we're gonna get lower quality steaks and we're gonna get our stand from the other Glen oak second hand and yeah, yeah, what was how to invoice those other guys for that stuff? Yeah, I'm surprised that hasn't been like a inside joke between all of the other Glen oak properties. Like just this weird Sending each other weird, like really weird gifts and stuff, like sure what's something you probably do, but I'm not smart enough to do that stuff what's? What's a day in the life look like for you right now, january, in Iowa.

Speaker 2: 12:06

Yeah, well, just got done pushing snow for several hours in the last few days, but you know we cut our, so we're we're seasonal club. We close down in around thanksgiving. We open up around the first of April. You know our in our world right now I think it's just trying to try and plan and our biggest challenges I think, like most throughout the country, is finding good help and Seasonal positions are. It's a real, it's a real crisis, and not only that, but just in the business as a whole. Like a train to find Assistant superintendents right now is difficult. So that were is an association. We're really in Iowa and I know nationally we're working hard try and promote. You know the golf industry as a career choice, especially in turf, and I'm sure it's the same throughout the club business. But you know there was just such a dry spell there where I think a lot of Opportunities weren't there, with All guys like me that stuck in a, stuck around at the same place for a long time, and so job opportunities weren't there. There wasn't Slow down and growth in the golf Business and there just wasn't a lot of opportunities for kids and so they naturally went away from it. So that's, that's kind of our biggest challenge and Working through like the ffa of america trying to get which is a real big group in Iowa here and we're trying to Promote ourselves there and give kids those at least the knowledge that this is an opportunity for me if they, if they want to pursue something like that. So, and I think you know there's, there's gonna be. Obviously, people are aging out and there's gonna be a need for Golf course superintendents as well, so it's a good time for Young people to get you know into the business. I think you know there was a long period of time where I would not have encouraged anyone to Pursuit because it was just difficult to move up. And that's a great thing within concert golf to for us is that you know we hope we can Promote the opportunities that that will have through, through concert, to be able to move people around and give them great opportunities.

Speaker 1: 14:40

Why? Why is it difficult and what are you trying to do to alleviate some of that? Are there any tangible things that you're trying to do actively to get around that?

Speaker 2: 14:57

Yeah, I mean we've had a change In our seasonal employment. It's been hard to find those guys that can work April 1st through November, and that's understandable and that's just a difficult spot to fill, and so we've had to kind of rotate back to more of. We're using a lot more summer kids again, which has been in college, college-age kids, and that's been awesome. That works for us for the most part. It gets us through our peak season of golf, through the middle of the season and it kind of leaves us struggling a little bit in the spring and fall. But that's been refreshing and it's been. I've been pleasantly surprised at the group of kids we've been able to bring in in the summers, and so it's just changed that way. And, like I said, we used to. You know, the philosophy before was and I was part of that was that you just you didn't make a whole lot of money as an assistant superintendent or an assistant golf pro and you put in your time and you got the opportunity to move on and we always tried to move people through quickly but as jobs kind of dried up then that just wasn't feasible anymore. And so now just that change is probably the biggest change that I've gone through in the market and what we're paying now for a good assistant superintendent might be double what we did maybe just 12, 13 years ago. So just trying to get those people, keep those people and also find the people that want that kind of responsibility, which I think that's another part of it. It's just, you know, this isn't a job where in the middle of the season you can, you know you're not going to work nine to five and go home. It's you just got to be here when you have to be here and Mother Nature dictates that mostly. And it's just, you know that's tough, that's tough and there's a lot of other things people can do. And I think that's our challenge in the business is to find people that want to take on that responsibility. And I love, you know, I love it because it's just I'm so proud, proudful of it, you know, and I think that's just hard, it's hard to find that and and but I think as, as opportunities start coming about, then that'll get better.

Speaker 1: 17:37

So yeah, yeah, no, and and for the more conscious employer person, younger, it doesn't matter who's coming into, look and want to work, I think, also going into you. You have to have that edge now with, you know being a concert golf, because if people go and search, you know, hopefully before they're applying they're doing some research on their on their own, at least on the website, and then they'll see, oh, you know, concert golf partners and that's been a common theme as well from from other clubs I've talked to on and off, on and off the record, but just how the ability to you know it's always not a given, but just seeing how many clubs there are all throughout the country, and so it's like, oh, you know, I kind of like this, I kind of, you know, even if it's a younger person, like, all right, I'm digging this, you know the, the, the maintenance and all this. But you know, I'm really hating this, this weather. Oh, they have a couple of clubs down south. Hey, can I go down there? Not, not right now, there's nothing open, but I think it just allows for that, that development, that enhancement and, just like you were saying too, just the ability to grow and expand and use your skills, and Not just one place but all locations, because Concert Golf now has over 30 clubs, so all of them. They're growing fast. Iowa's a little cold, though, so actually that's a great selling point. There might be some people who love the cold. Hey, do you like cold, snow, iowa and working with supers of the year?

Speaker 2: 19:12

There you go, that's it.

Speaker 1: 19:14

Yeah, now are you gonna do it?

Speaker 2: 19:16

There's a seasonality to it. I don't know if I could work in Florida and not have the winters to slow down a little bit.

Speaker 1: 19:26

To me, the older I get, the more I'm like I understand the Carolinas, Like I'm like, oh, okay, that's that nice in between you like a little bit of a chill, a little bit of, like you know, sweater weather.

Speaker 2: 19:41

Yep.

Speaker 1: 19:42

All right, sir. I wanna thank you so much for coming on. Congrats on being super of the year. Thanks for being here, Appreciate you and look forward to hopefully chatting again in the future. Keep it up.

Speaker 2: 19:54

Thank you, jimmy, nice talking to you.

Speaker 1: 19:56

Hope you all enjoyed that episode. Chris, thank you so much for coming on and sharing some knowledge with us all. Once again, thank you to Concert Golf Partners for being a show partner here If you or your club is interested in recapitalization or just seeing what Concert Golf has to offer. There are plenty of other organizations but not all are like Concert Golf Partners. It takes a real art and a real knack to go into an existing place and keep the culture, keep the story. What are the traditions? What makes the club the club? So head on over to ConcertGolfPartnerscom. Set up a call with Peter Danula. Guaranteed it's gonna be one of the best phone calls you will have this year. If you have not done so already, please check out the other tremendous four chat episodes we have here on Private Club Radio. We have so much wealth, so much knowledge in there that we know you're gonna enjoy them. That's this episode. Until next time, catch y'all on the flippity flip.