332: The Unwritten Melody of Club Culture w/ Ira Berkowitz

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hey everyone, welcome back to Private Club Radio, your industry source for news, media trends, updates, whether it's communications, marketing, leadership, management, food and beverage governance. We got you covered. I'm your host, denny Corby. Thank you so much for being here. Means the world. This episode I'm chatting with Ira Berkowitz, gm of the Springford Country Club in my home state here in Pennsylvania, and it's a great conversation. We have a lot of good laughs. He's a really good, genuine human being. He was a previous guest on here with Gabe many, many, many, many years ago. But this episode what I enjoy is why I love the club world is because it's so open and so helpful in so many ways, and this episode reinforces that. Because you don't need to be from the club world to be in the club world. And when I say that it's if you enjoy architecture, there's people who specialize in architecture for clubs. If you like accounting and finance and money, there's companies and organizations and people who specialize in that for private clubs. And as long as you have a good work ethic and you're open and you're humble and you're a good human, there's room for you here, because there's people in the industry who aren't any of those and they're here. No, but this goes to show because he comes from, just like me, the entertainment background. So spoiler alert, shameless plug. If you're looking for really fun club entertainment, head on over to dennycorbycom. I do a killer, magic, mind-wraining and comedy show for clubs, just saying. But Ira is a saxophone player who is a band leader and that's how he got his start in clubs was from performing and doing so many events at clubs and he just found himself in a position where this kind of sprang up and it just goes to show. Everyone has their own unique stories, their own backgrounds, and that's why I love the shows, why I love chatting with people, is it's not just learning about what they're doing right now, but it's what their story is, how they got here, what they learned along the way and what's gotten them to this point. So he and I talk about one of my favorite things. I ask how do you balance tradition and innovation? We talk about the pandemic a little bit, even though we're sort of past it, but just how much that had a significant impact on it? And I asked because he's been at his club for 20 years. He's been at his club for 20 years. So for me in my head I was wondering like, hey, how you've seen a huge progression. So what did that look like? Talking about coming in and out of it, I still just find the whole situation fascinating. But at the root of it, we're talking about building and maintaining super, super strong relationships with the members and the professionals in the industry, and he opens up and shares how he thought the club world when he first started it was like it was a competition, but it's not. We're not in competition. We're all here to help each other in sharing information and learning from other clubs, other club managers, other club professionals is essential for personal and professional growth and success. So this is just a really good conversation. I've chatted for way too long, so please welcome the musically talented, the very fun Ira Berkowitz. That is so much clear, so much clear.

Speaker 2: 3:47

How are you? I'm good man how you doing?

Speaker 1: 3:50

I'm doing well, just really jealous. Those 50 degree days last week really messed it up in this silly weather. Now, no, do you guys get hit with the much of snow down there?

Speaker 2: 4:06

We had about five inches.

Speaker 1: 4:09

That's more than us, surprisingly. Normally you guys down south, there near Philly, get a little bit less than us.

Speaker 2: 4:19

Philly didn't get much. We're about 30 miles west, so Western Montgomery County, like the George King of Prussia area.

Speaker 1: 4:28

I know for me when I passed the tunnel in Lehigh Valley once I get through there, usually the weather's a lot nicer, mm-hmm.

Speaker 2: 4:39

We got spoiled the last two years, but next to nothing. And then oh, Global warming.

Speaker 1: 4:46

So, Mr Berkowitz, I'm thrilled to have you on. I know you've been on here before, but I love your story. You've been in the club world for how long now?

Speaker 2: 4:57

September 1992.

Speaker 1: 5:01

And it's funny because you know that exact date. Why, oh why?

Speaker 2: 5:06

Because I had left the music industry and I was a band leader playing weddings in Bar Mitzvahs for almost 20 years and my wife and I actually met at a large like Smorgasburg style restaurant banquet center, wedding center back in the 70s and we ended up co-general managers of that place for, let's see, 1987 to just the end of 91. We were managing the whole place together, but prior to that we were running the banquet department. I was there about 19 years and when that closed and just had banned I said, do I stay in hospitality? But what do I do? And I actually saw an ad for a country club in the mainline area of Philadelphia. It was for an assistant and I knew nothing about country clubs other than I played that country club with my band. So what a learning experience.

Speaker 1: 6:11

So, and what that was the day? Wasn't there a funny story around that you were telling me with? Like, you had a gig, but it wasn't at the same gig you had the club at, or something?

Speaker 2: 6:23

Well, yeah, when I actually I opened a newspaper and I saw this ad for was Radner Valley Country Club in Villanova, pennsylvania, and I said to my wife I said I'm going to send my resume for this assistant manager's job at Radner Valley Country Club and her reaction was what do you know about country clubs? I said I played Bar Mitzvah there. I know the building. That was it.

Speaker 1: 6:48

I know the building, I know the layout, I can manage it. And then, how long were you there for?

Speaker 2: 6:56

Well, I was there. I stayed there about two years. I left on my own back in 93. So into my second year there, a friend of mine approached me and kind of demanded that I give him my resume because his boss was a member at Spring Ford Country Club in Reuters, ford, pa. And Spring Ford at that time was planning to build an addition and double the size of their buildings so they were looking for a new manager. My first reaction was no, I don't need that. I'm at Radner Valley, blah, blah, blah, and my GM, she had told me when I got hired that you know when she retires which she told me was about three years that if they like me I'd become the general manager. I'm like, yeah, right, okay. But I gave my resume to my buddy and I ended up having an interview at Spring Ford in 93. But they weren't quite ready because they hadn't start construction yet. So the interview went well. But I got the standard letter that says thanks for interviewing. We promoted our current assistant. But there was a handwritten note on the bottom of the letter that says we'll be in touch and it was signed by the House Committee chair. So I'm like, what does that mean? Yes, no, or maybe. So I put it off to the side. 14 months goes by and it was July in 1994. I work at Radner Valley and my barn manager approaches me. He says you're getting a call today and I said from who? And he was friends with members here at Spring Ford. He says from up there, what is up there? And he says Spring Ford. I said get out of here. So I was actually going to a friend's wedding that night. So I had a rare Saturday night off Walk into my house it's about 3 30 in the afternoon because he had to be at the wedding. By five phones ringing, I pick it up and it's the house chairman. We're ready. Are you ready? Can you stop by the club tonight? I said I'm going to a wedding because we'll see you Monday morning at 9am. You can't make this stuff up. So I come back here, spring Ford, that Monday 9 o'clock. Meet with a couple more guys, go home one o'clock. The phones ringing. We need you to meet us again tonight at five o'clock at the club president's house. He lives in Valley Forge. Okay, give me directions. This is way before GPS, right. So I get to his house that night. They offer me the job to become manager here, but they're still under construction, including the kitchen. They only had a food truck parked next to the grow room on the lower level to service the members at that time. This is 1994.

Speaker 1: 9:54

Food trucks before before they even cool Before they were a thing.

Speaker 2: 9:58

And then, you know, I told them. I said, listen, you know, you're really, you're working out of a construction trailer with the offices. I said why don't I give Radner Valley sufficient notice to leave and not start until after Labor Day? So finish out the summer season and they go? Okay, that's a good idea, that's fair. So you know, next day I went to Radner, gave my GM my notice. I wasn't too happy but she said well, find your replacement, All right. So I did a couple of searches. I found a guy was looking to get into country clubs, met with him, hired him and at least I was able to spend about a month with him in transition, which was good. Right, that's really good. And I was like I'm going to be there, come here. And it was like three months later my replacement that I replaced myself with at Radner. He calls me and he goes, guess what? She quit, I'm now at GM, so he becomes GM, I'm GM, it's all good, right, but yeah, it's wild. But the cool thing about, you know, coming into a country club management you know I didn't major in that as a music major and the private club industry, which I didn't realize membership owned, like we are. There's really no competition. So that, as the newbie at the time, you know the guys on meeting who are general managers at you become a member of the club managers association, right. And we had the Philadelphia vicinity chapter. Well, they take you under their wing and they're explaining that you're not in a restaurant business, you're in member dining. You have 300 bosses and I'm like, okay, what does that mean? But until I started going to the education sessions, conferences, I remember specifically Greg Patterson stood up there and mentions that you know the buzz and the love. If you don't know you're in a happiness business, you should get out of it. And that's when the bells clicked. You know, but not for profit. We're a home away from home. All those sayings are so true about a club. You know it's a family based business. You know everybody has your back employees, members, everybody. So it's cool thing.

Speaker 1: 12:30

What's it been like I was going to say what's it been like being in the same club for 20 years?

Speaker 2: 12:36

Okay, so mine's a little bit different and you know when I was last on this, this program with Gabe Said you know, never burn a bridge right. So how I left, radner gave plenty notice. Replace myself, come to spring forward. We were pretty much the only game in town as a private club back then in the 90s. It's interesting that we're Western Montgomery County, suburban Philadelphia, but Eastern Montgomery County is saturated with country clubs. They're on top of each other. Here there's only a few. We're pretty far from one another. But in 2004 another club opened up about 10 minute drive from here, a one-on-one private club, and they gave us the first time. This place had competition and and I brought in creative coffee marketing and we did some programs here, kept us in on track. But the club industry is political, right, would you say.

Speaker 1: 13:42

Yeah, just a little.

Speaker 2: 13:44

So the board changed a little bit and Let me just say that we parted ways after my 12 year tenure here at spring for it and at that point I was like, okay, what do I do? And actually you know I, when I left here, I helped him out with some weddings For the next month. I actually met my replacement and spent the day with him, because if you're gonna stay in this business, you're gonna know that person anyway. So I leave here. Actually, there wasn't a club open in the area that I was interested in and I said you know I need to work. So I ended up a buddy of mine was the general manager at an Nissan dealership Just around, pretty much around the corner from this club and I ended up selling cars, right. The crazy part is I'm selling cars to members at Springford, right, and they found me. So. So this is 2006, right, I'm doing this January of 2007 a friend of mine who was a club manager, general manager who I sold the car to. He called me and he said you done selling cars, when you get home tonight, send your resume to Meadowlands Country Club in Bluebell, pennsylvania. My first reaction was, nah, I don't think so. And Now it was a couple of years ago. It's. It's different today and it's healthier today. But years ago there was Certain tags for clubs yet Italian clubs, irish clubs, jewish clubs, blah, blah, blah. So my last name is Berkowitz, right? So he says Berkowitz, you, it's Meadowlands. I said are you trying to say something to the Jewish thing? So I got home, read the job description, showed it to my wife it was almost identical what I did here at Springford, ended up sending my resume to Meadowlands. I Did want to like three interviews with them and was offered a general manager's job down there, and so I started in 07 at Meadowlands, which is only about a half hour ride from my house. Figured okay, let's see how this goes now. I was at Meadowlands Until just about the end of 2015, so I started there in 2007. They were selling the club, the members were selling the club as, as it, let's say, the club needed to diversify a little bit. And my last, my last December of 14, besides Hanukkah party, I had brunch with Santa, and April 15, in addition to pass over Saters, we did a spring event with Easter Bunny. Whoa, you have to do that. You know, my wife converted for me, right? Okay, so we celebrate everything and and the club at that point went through some stuff and I knew it was gonna be sold, but I wasn't really actively looking to go anywhere. Okay, it's gonna be sold to one Gentlemen who I knew and his mother was a member of the club and he had just purchased a restaurant right around the corner from the club it's very famous to bluebell in and I figured, okay, I guess they don't see how this pans out. Now again, I'm not really actively looking. The end of September of 2015 I get this phone call from the current president at spring forward country club and he says to me I have two questions for you. Say yes or no. I said, okay, what's the first question? He says are you looking? Look, you know so-and-so is buying the club and did you hear I interviewed in another place, in Exiton, but it's too far. I'm not driving the Exiton because, yeah, I heard you interviewed and it's because a guy from spring Ford who was at that club asked me to interview. That's what I did, it for the exercise of interviewing. And the second question was do you want to talk to me about coming back to spring? For now, that's a headspin. And I said well, it's been ten years since I walked out the door and I had asked a few questions, including who's still there, and was my old assistant back? And he said yeah, and I went, wow, and Financially they were stable, which is a good thing, and I walked back in here December 1st of 2015. Been here now since then. So I did a 12 year run. Now I am an over an eight year run at the same club, with a little break of nine years. I did there from clubbing between and the first one. I stayed two years and left on my own behalf, but I left metal ends on my own behalf, which is now called bluestone, by the way. So new owners, new name. But yeah, when I first got into this business, you know, and it took a few months from a lot of head spins Like what the heck am I in? You know it's different. I I opened up one of the club management magazines and I saw the tenure for a general manager at a country club is Two and a half years. I was like, oh my god, what did I come into? Right? I don't want to travel this country. I'm a guy who likes to stay in the spot for a while. Yeah, and whatever the heck I've done. I think I've done that, you know.

Speaker 1: 19:20

I was very impressed to have that level of a run, knowing that Like and yeah, so what, if can you? When you left Springford the first time, right, can you go into like what, what was going on there? Can you go into that at all, or is that a little bit under?

Speaker 2: 19:41

It was a board change, a major board change, and and what?

Speaker 1: 19:46

does that? What does that mean, like what's a, what's a major board change?

Speaker 2: 19:51

Well, when you have a couple spots open for board elections or members to get on the board and you only have, let's say, three openings and three people running, everything's good. But when you have six opening, three openings and six people running, there's agendas and egos involved and when that happens, the handwriting's kind of on the wall and they start. One guy started micromanaging me a lot my assistant, who was here at that point in 2015, no, 2005,. When things got crazy, she started 1985, she was 16 years old. So by 2005, she's here at 20 years. She runs the office, she's the assistant club manager. She left and I was like oh boy, and I hired another person, but it you could see a comment and they actually asked me to interview for my own position and I was like this is crazy. But I did it and I was like I'll just stay until they asked for my keys. Okay, so it wasn't until March 31st of 06th. They asked for the keys, but this was the crazy part. They said how many weddings do you have booked in April, because the new guy's not starting until May 1st? I said I have three. Well, can you still run those and can you spend the day after day with the new guy Now. Where the heck am I going? Right, I don't want to make enemies. I live out here. I got friends at this club and I did all that. You know. And I left and when you look back, some things happen for the best, right, and I think that was a good move. I ended up going to another club, eventually, being metal lands, and the funny part is people would ask me and I don't want to take this the wrong way, but they go how does metal lands compare to Springfork? And Springfork is a down the earth, just a friendly membership, great membership. I said metal lands it's the Jewish version of Springfork. Right, there's a couple differences cultural differences but the crazy part is, in 2010, a group of members from metal lands played out here at Springfork in what's called the Gap Matches in April and they had to track me down. We played your old club. I remember we were at Springfork. I said how was it? Great golf course, really nice down the earth guys we played with. And I said listen to what you're describing. You're describing the non-Jewish version of metal lands, right, and this is a joke. That's funny, right? Yeah, I mean, every club has its own personality, right, right, and I think a lot of it also is based on location. Where's the club located? And I really think what happened here is there were a few individuals back in 040506 that tried to change the personality of this club. If you're familiar with Philadelphia, you got Philadelphia, you have suburbs, you have the main line. You know, and we're not in the main line.

Speaker 1: 23:00

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 23:01

I think they tried to turn Royersford and Limerick into the main line.

Speaker 1: 23:05

Sorry, I got you.

Speaker 2: 23:07

The growth out here is tremendous. I mean, if you're familiar with King of Prussia, king of Prussia looks like Philadelphia, now looks like a city and what used to be an area out here with very few stores and houses, growth explosion. It's like King of Prussia West out here. The outlets out here in Limerick are called Philadelphia premium outlets. We're 40 minutes from Philly. There's another little town called Oaks that has the greater Philadelphia Convention Center and these were, you know, what I used to call boom docs when I moved out here, you know. But yeah, I mean it's. You're not going to change my personality. You're not going to change your personality and you're not going to change the personality of country club that is now this year 100 years old. Grats so yeah, so yeah, a lot of celebrations going on this year.

Speaker 1: 24:02

Has the situation that you ran into, you know, first time? Has that, has it inched closer to that sort of position again, like, has it gotten to a point where it was almost like, oh, this might be happening again you know I might be looking for something else or has it been more, I don't want to say more controlled, but is it like, have there been better captains in place? But by that I mean like people on the board and stuff like has has has? Has that issue ever almost come back to light, or has it been fairly calm in that in that room?

Speaker 2: 24:38

It's been a good group to work with. And the funny part was when the current president asked me to come back and I know what had happened here. This place is off track and I said, look, you know, I think we have the right team in place. If I come back, it's not one person waving a magic wand, so, and so is back. Everything's going to be better. You have to have a team effort and I can't do this myself. And we had that in place, we still have it in place and you know I'm at an age that don't do that to me again. You won't have to open the door, I'll give you my keys, you know? No, yeah, so, as I'm the same age as my club president and he said a couple years ago you know, we're both in the ninth inning. Thanks for the heads up. Thanks for the heads up. Yeah, you know, I keep doing until my body says hey, stop doing it. You know.

Speaker 1: 25:43

What's it? What's it been like since 2020? You know, you've, you've, you've been there, you've, you've seen a lot and a lot has changed, and I think you know it's cool. I get to talk to somebody because I think, with the pandemic, so much did change. People switched positions, companies, people left the club world, people came into the club world. You know so, you being in the club way before and now I want to say way after the pandemic, is it so what? What has that been like, the switch from 2020 to now 2024.

Speaker 2: 26:14

So up until 2020. So when I came back 15, every year we were growing and doing things in a positive manner. Membership growth was happening again, party business was coming back and then the world stopped. March 15th 2020 at four o'clock Sunday Get out of Dodge. We're out of here. We're walking out. Everything is closed. And the crazy part, every state had different mandates and rules. Oh, I know.

Speaker 1: 26:42

You know it was a different area of nuts, the wild wild west it was.

Speaker 2: 26:47

So our clubhouse in in Western in Montgomery County, pennsylvania, you were not allowed to come back into the building. For 100 million dollars For 102 days they had these color phases red phase, I remember, and green Now. Golf was not allowed to happen at all until May 1st, but then they allowed golf with a lot of restrictions. The only thing I was able to open up was one of my windows. Is that the turn? So we had the barriers, we had masks. We're doing, you know, some sandwiches, beverages, that's all we were doing. And it was weird. I said, oh my God, I'm operating a golf course in a hot dog stand. This is it, that's all we're allowed to do. Members could not come into the building. We had facilities on the golf course, you know for that. And then June 26th shows up where Montgomery County goes green phase, and the state puts out a 17 page document how to come back inside and it's all written for the restaurant industry, which are we a restaurant? I don't think so, but we're following the rules. We played the game and one of the things was social distance, 50% seating capacity inside and masks, you know, other than when you're eating. But if you get up to move around, put the mask back on. So we basically did that. You know, we shut down half our tables and whatnot. But that only lasted three weeks and then the rules changed down to 25% indoor seating and a meal is required to have a cocktail. Okay, again, we followed the rules. Some of the members like what are you doing? I said, look, we have a liquor license. Just protect a liquor license and just go with the flow. This will end eventually, right, and everybody behaved pretty well. You had to have reservations for everything dining. Coming to the swimming pool, you had to have reservations. Block of time. I don't mean to interrupt.

Speaker 1: 28:58

I just, I just totally remembered you. In order to have a cocktail, you had to have a meal, because there was I don't know if it was around my area, your area, somewhere in PA some bar restaurant were. If you can order a lunchable, remember the the lunchable in the grocery store you can order a lunchable, and that was your meal, and then you can get your drink. So I forgot about that. Oh my goodness, things were wild. Sorry, go ahead. Yeah, it was crazy.

Speaker 2: 29:28

So the pool reservations. Now we are a no tea time club, so members show up, they check in at the pro shop. The pro shop gives them a tea time and it's easier to meet new people, because if a group doesn't have the person and members shows up, hey, you want to play with these people. You know they're really, you're really great. But you had to have tea times during COVID, right? So the click started forming and all that. And then we got rid of the tea time things. We went back to normal with golf. It was June of 21. And then, when everything got was but what happened to? World shut down in March, okay, 2020. You can't come into the building. We were actually having our board meetings in the club president's parking lot, at his office outside, and you think are we done? Is this over? But when we got back into the building on June 26 for dining again, there was this crazy euphoria like, oh my God, the members, this is the only place we're going to go. We're not going to restaurants, we feel safe here, we feel safe here. And the industry was saying watch what happens. Your club is going to be the staycation and nobody it seemed like nobody was traveling and our place was packed. Now, golf being an outdoor sport, all of a sudden hotter than when Tiger Woods put that you know thing in golf in the nineties that all these country clubs were being built, a pandemic promotion for the golf industry. We took in well over 200 memberships during COVID. Okay, unheard of. Um, we were able to do a renovation on the entire golf course, over a million five, no assessment, no bank loans paid for it. It was unbelievable. So Dr Fauci, as Steve Graves says, was the membership director. I read that one of his LinkedIn articles.

Speaker 1: 31:50

That's, that's a good line. That's funny. Yeah, that's really funny, I'm.

Speaker 2: 31:55

I'm. I'm clipping that, yeah, but you know we have full membership, 300 full equity owners. We have a waitlist with limited play and it's the last time? Yeah, we still have 30, 30 people on it. But the last time we had a waitlist like this was the late nineties, prior to nine 11, you know yeah, how are you, how are you able to maintain that waitlist?

Speaker 1: 32:21

Because now here's, here's where it's getting. I don't want to say fun, but watching now, because the pandemic was a savior for a lot of people and a lot of the clubs that needed help got the help in whatever ways you want to see it, from PPO's to you know, just the membership influx, but a lot of them just kind of patched holes or not not even patched, just do whatever. And now, as things are starting to level out, they're back to where they were Now they're back to struggling. Now they don't have a waitlist and stuff. So how have you been able to Keep it, keep it in and maintain that level?

Speaker 2: 32:59

That's a great question. We still get a ton of membership inquiries Every week, almost every day. I'm sending stuff out all the time, given tours. Membership committee is pretty active here. We we didn't think we'd still have a list this long, because you just don't know anymore. I, you, play this world day by day these days. You know, um, this club was usually really easy to predict on what's gonna happen when, where, and you know prior to this. To give you an example prior to COVID, we would put out our schedule for food service in our newsletter. Here's the school schedule for the month Since COVID. We still just put out a schedule every week on an email. This is our food service schedule this week, subject to changes, you know. Could you tell me now what's gonna? What is gonna happen? Yeah and the membership's great. They get it, you know so.

Speaker 1: 33:57

Well, no, it's it. No, you're right. It goes back to what you said. Every club has their own personality, their own thing, and it sounds like everyone's In in the right place. That's. That's. That's really good. One of my favorite questions to to ask is especially someone like you who's been in the industry for for a minute and in the same a written same club For for a lot of it how are you balancing tradition and innovation?

Speaker 2: 34:29

Well, this year is is interesting because of the hundredth year anniversary. A lot of our Typical events that we do. They're kind of putting those off to the side. So every month an event is a different decade starting. We started with a different type in New Year's Eve party and Every month we're going back in time until the end of the year will be in the 20s. That's actually just booked a band for a roaring 20s party. As far as how this club operates, it's a very golf-centric club. It always has been. We don't have rackets here and we have a decent pool and food is is really good and the events are fun. But one one of the things was that happened with COVID with the seating issues for Limitations 50%, 25%, right when they hit 25%, and we had 200 players on a Saturday and Sunday on a golf course. Well, my girl room, which has about a hundred seats, is now down to 25 usable seats. What do you do? So you have a banquet space that you weren't allowed to have banquets or gatherings or dance floors. Forget it, but it's dead real estate. But our banquet room has an outdoor deck and our primary Dining facilities are dining rooms and back rooms on second floor. So I said well, let's figure out how to use this dead space. I don't know when I'm getting these weddings back, if I get them back at all. Well, the membership looks at the outdoor banquet deck because that's where we want to go so quickly. We we purchased mobile computers for point of sale on on mobile carts. They said can you get us a couple big screen TVs that put outside? Okay, we did that, put some fans out there. Now this thing's covered with an awning, yeah. And we turned it into what I call the second floor grill room right, our girl rooms kind of. They come and go your, there's no reservations in there, like the dining rooms. And they flooded this banquet deck. That was their new home Overlays, the best view in the place. Now COVID is starting to end, but not the banquet deck usage, and Whenever I would have a private party up there. Well, you can't have the members up there too? Yeah you know you're crashing somebody's event. They actually told me probably the winner of 22 the board Cut back on the amount of banquets and non-member stuff that we're doing and I was like, wow, oh, I get it. No one's ever told me not to sell. But I got it and and this is true a few months later, the private club advisor newsletter You're familiar with that yeah, the top article Said exactly that what my board told me to cut back and I showed my office staff Read this. They got today, right, this about spring for it. I said, no, this is national, you know. So that's one cool thing about like a newsletter like that that you get anything in this industry. It's not just us, it's happening at other clubs. You know. So the fact that years ago if you wanted to find out what was going on, you went to an Education event, you physically went. Everything is online now. Every morning I get the questions of the day from club managers across the country and some of them you know Are happening here some ago. That's interesting, just read this stuff. But the sharing of information in this industry is unique. You know, we're a private club whose member owned is not competing with another private club whose member on, because they all have Reciprocal privileges to go play these other places, you know. So, yeah, that that was the first real learning curve for me when I started at Radner Valley. You know why is this different? You know that's a good thing, so, but they are political, oh, governance model, so well, sir, it has been Absolute pleasure.

Speaker 1: 38:58

I I we've chatted a couple times. I love chatting with you, so much Homes man. I was just gonna make a taxophone joke. Damn you All right.

Speaker 2: 39:10

I play once a year New Year's Eve here. That's it.

Speaker 1: 39:14

Actually play just going through this, because you're just walking around. That'd be fun.

Speaker 2: 39:18

Well, yeah, if you go to our Facebook page, you'll see what I did this New Year's Eve.

Speaker 1: 39:28

You Musician. But, sir, thank you so much for being on my pleasure man Appreciate it. Hope you all enjoyed that episode. I know I did chatting with Ira such a hoot. You know what to do if you're enjoying the content, if you haven't done so already, if you're listening on Apple or Spotify or ever Five stars. Four stars a review means the world. We share a lot on social media. If you can share a post, that means the world. Share with with a colleague, that means the world. You all mean the world. I'm gonna stop saying the world, world, world, man, it's good late. Anyway, hope you all enjoyed it. Thank you so much for being here. Thanks for listening. If you haven't already, sign up for our newsletter so you can stay up to date with all of our episodes, all of our content that we're putting out. We're doing some really cool, fun stuff here and I'm excited to be sharing it with you. So until next time, catch on the flippity, flip you.