336: Community Building & Managing 2 CMAA Chapters w/ Kathy Collins

Speaker 1:
0:00

Hey everyone, welcome back to Private Club Radio, your industry source for conversations, news, trends and updates, all while trying to bring some fun to the world of private golf and country clubs. I'm your host, denny Corby. Thank you for being here. Can't believe it's April already. I mean, I can. I think that's just the right thing to say anytime the new month starts. Can't believe it's already the next month. In a wild couple months it has been between different club events CMA World Conference, the NCAA coming up show soon.

Speaker 1:
0:36

I was just in Naples, florida, speaking to the MDASF, the Marketing Directors Association of Southwest Florida, and a lot is going on. And in this episode I chat with a friend of mine known to many of you, kathy Collins, managing Director of the Wisconsin Badgers CMAA for about 20 years and been also the Managing Director of the Greater Chicago Chapter CMAA for about two and a half years, since 2021. She did so good at one job she acquired another, but we talk about that in this because, you know, managing one chapter is a lot, managing two quite a challenge, quite in a a, a taking and that's part of our talk is you know, how do you do that effectively? Cause it's not a not an easy job. Kathy shares her journey with us in the club world and you know the the challenges of managing two chapters. So we discussed the importance of, obviously, time management and, you know, finding the ways to merge, manage and handle you know many different responsibilities. We talk about some memorable projects and things that she's been a part of over the past couple of years and we talk about the importance of fostering and keeping and enhancing a sense of community now. So I think it's more important than ever, but in how difficult that can be when it comes to, you know, managing a group of club managers from such a vast far, you know people aren't always close. So how do you keep and foster that sense of community?

Speaker 1:
2:27

Private Club Radio listeners. Please welcome Kathy Collins. You're Badger and Chicago. Now right, correct, yes, and when did that start? 2021?

Speaker 2:
2:38

So I added the Greater Chicago chapter. Chicago chapter, yes, around 2021 and 2020.

Speaker 1:
2:52

So, yeah, been doing Wisconsin Badger chapter for over 20 years Adding having to. Yeah, that's, I mean that's that's quite the balancing act.

Speaker 2:
2:58

It has been a lesson in time management, absolutely. But as you continue on, you just find new ways to merge it all together and make the best of your time, best use of your time.

Speaker 1:
3:15

I feel like that that might be a fun, fun episode, just like in its own, just like time management, um cause that has to definitely be quite, quite the challenge.

Speaker 2:
3:25

It is. It's a big balancing act.

Speaker 1:
3:28

Now, what's what got you started in the club world?

Speaker 2:
3:34

So I went to the university of Wisconsin stuff for college and I was um completely fixed on going into hotel management. That's what I was going to do, nobody was going to tell me anything different and started at UW Stout and my roommate one of my best best friends, who's still in the industry as well she came into the room and she said Kathy, you have to come with me to this CMAA student chapter meeting. And I said what is CMAA? She said I don't know. Is this a cult? I don't know exactly, but we can go to New York for the summer and do an internship. I was like all right.

Speaker 1:
4:22

I'm in.

Speaker 2:
4:24

Take me to this meeting, tricia. So we went to the CMAA meeting, had a blast, learned about club management for the first time, or got a little piece of it, and from there we went out to Long Island, did an internship that summer at Lawrence Beach Club. An internship that summer at Lawrence Beach Club. Everybody knows Randy Reuters Club, but I was at a different club, lawrence Beach Club. We went there, tricia and I and a couple others from UW-Stout, along with about 10 interns from Florida and another group of 12 from Ireland, and we lived in what they called the monkey house. And the first day there Tricia and I cried because we were like what did we do? Because we walked into this room. You have no TV and this is also 1991. So there's no TV in the room. The bathroom door, like we go in to use the restroom and it flips open the other way and there's just like nothing. You have nothing in this room. It's just a bed and a sink, basically right. And we're like what did we do?

Speaker 2:
5:41

But we end up having this amazing summer meeting all these fantastic people from not only Ireland but Florida, just all over, as well as the management staff there, and had the time of our life working at the speech club. We met amazing people. The members were outstanding. We had one member, mr Cashman. Perfect name, right, mr Cashman. Mr Cashman took all of the interns to Wall Street one day. We were there for the opening bell. He then took us all out to lunch. We really experienced New York and it was amazing, learned so much. And from that summer on I said hotels no, I am fully, fully invested into club management. So I continued on at UW Stout, did some additional interns during my time there, graduated in hospitality and tourism management and went right into club management. And following that I'm getting to the point here how I got into where I am now.

Speaker 1:
6:57

Stay with me. No, this is awesome. This is all part of the journey. I love the story. This is so good. The journey.

Speaker 2:
7:03

So started into club management assistant manager, moving up. I was promoted to general manager at a very young age, probably too young when I look back at the things I didn't know. I was 29 years old. I was 29 years old, 29.

Speaker 1:
7:25

I just had the interview I just aired with Randy St John from the Tuxedo Club. He was 29, too.

Speaker 2:
7:34

So actually, maybe, after talking to him, maybe that was I might have been a couple of years younger than that, because I did serve in that role for a while, but it was interesting.

Speaker 2:
7:52

So I was the assistant general manager at a club and then the GM moved and so I was serving as the interim and then was approached to take the full job and at that time, the treasurer of the club he was a fantastic mentor.

Speaker 2:
8:02

He really took me under my his wing too and said you know, kathy, for example, when we're at these meetings, break bread with us. You know, I was always like no, no, no, I am the employee, I will not engage in that. But really, to his point, he's like no, you're part of our, us and you need to break bread with us, and just little things like that. He was a huge help and he was always somebody I could go to and ask questions. So I spent some time at this club and then shortly thereafter I started a family and the decision was made to spend more time at home with the two kids, to spend more time at home with the two kids, and so I stepped away from the general manager role and at that very same time the Wisconsin Badger chapter said we're looking for a managing director, is that something you would be interested in? Absolutely.

Speaker 1:
9:00

What a blessing 20 some years ago, able to work from home with my two kids, and at that time it was very part time. I get all of your stuff. You guys are very active and do a lot and also do a lot with the communities as well.

Speaker 2:
9:30

Right, right, yeah, we have a great time, great time. And then a few years ago, I received a call from Jim Cardamone in the Greater Chicago chapter and he said Kathy, I know this is crazy chapter. And he said Kathy, I know this is crazy, but but Diana has just Diana, who was their managing director, has decided to go back into clubs and so we're looking for somebody. Do you what? Do you think you want to talk about it? And I said absolutely, I want to talk about it. I had a change in my life about six years ago where I was now on a single income and I thought this is going to be perfect timing, this is just going to be just right. And so Jim and I sat down and we talked, and we talked about the economies of scale, the two chapters not coming together but having some of the same speakers, for instance, come in and save on some travel and some more affiliation?

Speaker 2:
10:30

Yeah, yes, and and he saw my passion for CMAA and just wanting to move others along in their career, so it's been tremendous. It's been absolutely a blessing for me to be able to continue to do what I love and now do it for two chapters.

Speaker 1:
10:49

And I'm, oh, my head's just going so many different directions because I'm assuming it's you, cause you've learned so much over with the, with the Wisconsin, so probably bringing over and just handling, you know, probably you, you probably have so many systems in place and you're so organized that it was more just, you know, plugging and playing and kind of finding the right fits there.

Speaker 2:
11:12

Right, a lot of that, and what has been very helpful is the fact that both chapters have very engaged boards and you really cannot be successful without having the leadership on the chapter boards being involved and running their committees. And then you're the one. The managing director is the one doing the heavy lifting, but they are orchestrating a lot of that, and then you're their support and make it all come together because they have real work. So what I like to say I had a president in the Wisconsin Badger chapter years ago who I called. So this came from her. I called you know, when you need things, you communicate with your president a lot.

Speaker 2:
12:05

And I called her one day and she said Kathy, what do you need? I have real work to do. And I said what I said well, this is my real work. Of course she was kidding, right, she was absolutely kidding. But she said I said, well, this is my real work. Of course she was kidding, right, she was absolutely kidding. But she said I said, well, this is my real work and I'm doing my real work, so work with me here. But no, it's, it's the boards, it's the committee chairs all taking part in it, and that's how you get chapter engagement, as well as if the committee chairs are really doing their job. It just brings everybody together.

Speaker 1:
12:43

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Speaker 1:
13:55

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Speaker 1:
14:32

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Speaker 2:
15:20

Wow, there is one coming up, but I can't share it yet. Denny, there's not enough. I mean, it was you could have just said no, come on, I'm going to tease. I'm going to tease, it was just Okay.

Speaker 1:
15:36

Give us as much detail as you can, OK because this was just approved by the Chicago board.

Speaker 2:
15:45

But there's other entities we're going to. I'll just say this In 2025, the Chicago, the greater Chicago chapter, will be hosting the Midwest Regional Education Forum. Chicago chapter will be hosting the Midwest regional education forum, and it is going to be like none other that we've done in the past.

Speaker 1:
16:05

Oh man, yeah. So buckle up. Keep us updated on that.

Speaker 2:
16:07

Buckle up buttercup. So, yeah, it's going to be good. So, and the Midwest regional education Forum is has traditionally been. It started in 2008. And so we the Wisconsin Badger chapter, greater Chicago chapter, upper Midwest chapter, iowa and Illini, which is now Greater Chicago chapter that's another story, right. Greater Chicago chapter that's another story, right.

Speaker 2:
16:41

The five chapters got together and put together the Midwest Regional Education Forum. So we rotate between Chicago, wisconsin and Minnesota and put together a two and a half day education session. It's really geared towards it's both GMs and mid-managers, but we look at it as a mini conference so that a lot of times, gms get the opportunity to go to world conference, which there's none other right. The opportunities there are just unbelievable and we appreciate that, but not every club can send everybody to world conference. So we wanted something that would include that networking for mid managers and GMs who maybe just couldn't make it to World Conference, and so that's been very successful and it's been a great formula. We do it every other year and I just chatted with Raleigh, the managing director of managing directors from the Upper Midwest chapter last week, and we are on board for a really spectacular 2025 forum. It's gonna take a lot of coordination, but, um, so that's a big, uh, that's a big project coming together, oh, man, okay.

Speaker 1:
17:54

So since you're gonna're going to keep that a little bit more close to the chest too, what would you? I like this because you have the ability to see so much from like a perspective, of like a overview. How do you see technology in clubs and management and member experiences, and how have you seen technology over the years?

Speaker 2:
18:19

Well, the technology specifically inside of clubs is horrible. Let's just be honest with that and everybody step it up. Okay, let's step it up in 2024, 25 and on, because when we go to clubs for events, the AV is just not working. I don't think there's a manager out there who would disagree with that. Maybe I'm wrong. When we go to clubs for events, it's like the AV is just like not working. I don't think there's a manager out there who would disagree with that. Maybe I'm wrong, but no, clubs are coming along right. It's always a little bit slower than I think the technology that's available.

Speaker 2:
18:52

However, with that said, I think all chapters have really taken hold of what is available since COVID and even though a lot of it was there prior, we just weren't utilizing it. But we certainly are now, and I know in both Greater Chicago and Wisconsin, we are absolutely wanting to bring people together in person, because there's nothing better and you don't get as much out of it, quite honestly. But we are constantly offering things in a hybrid fashion, now as well, to understand people's schedules and so forth, and then there's just so much more. I mean even with registration and connecting, you know, even like the CMAA Connect and connecting online too, so we're coming along.

Speaker 1:
19:45

So it's funny, you sort of started answering a question I was going to ask, which is you know, with your experience with now two chapters, all these clubs, how do you approach fostering a sense of community within these environments? Because it is tough and you know, because it's some a little spread out and it's still it's a difficult, it's a difficult and hard thing to do. So what is your approach to making sure you have that communal feel?

Speaker 2:
20:14

that's a great question because we've talked a lot about that um both boards recently, because sometimes that that connection slips if there's too much technology or people are maybe on an island because they're, you know, in the northern part of Wisconsin or in the greater Chicago chapter, maybe they're in Michigan and not quite able to get to everything. So we've been talking a lot about A offer those hybrid situations. B have a membership committee who is reaching out to those individuals not just via email or phone call, but go back to the basics and go meet people for breakfast, cup of coffee, a lunch. We now have a little thing called a buddy bag in Wisconsin where let me just show you the buddy bag- oh, let's see the buddy bag.

Speaker 2:
21:16

So one of our corporate partners in Wisconsin Clothes Clinic made these bags for us and so, anyway, we've decided to utilize that for a few different things so that we can meet up with our buddy, our new member, and we can hand them a gift in person, which was made by one of our corporate partners, filled with information about our corporate partners, a couple books from sessions that we've had with speakers and a journal just some, some, just some fun things right to have our logo on there and hand them something when we meet with them to say hey, hi and welcome, and so that person knows someone when they go to a session, so it's not completely overwhelming to them.

Speaker 2:
22:11

And then another thing we've really been focused on both chapters this year have said we really have to get back to more social network, more social networking, more social opportunities that aren't necessarily tied in with education all the time, but the opportunity to just get together. So, for example, the greater Chicago chapter we're getting together in March, um, at a golf Bay and we're just going to have some appetizers and drinks and hit some golf balls and you know, it's just a great opportunity to get together and and talk.

Speaker 1:
22:50

Yeah, no, that's that's. That's awesome, that's really what's needed.

Speaker 2:
22:56

It is heavily, it is Um, so hopefully we'll have you know, continue to see great um attendance at these events and let's get everybody together. We've got a bourbon event coming up in Chicago as well Barbecue and bourbon. I mean you know there's a new member round table in Wisconsin. Just casual again, get together. So a lot of that is important.

Speaker 1:
23:26

Yeah, back to basics. Back to basics, back to basics, back to basics. Are there any one or many club management myths you'd like to debunk?

Speaker 2:
23:42

Can you give me one, do you?

Speaker 1:
23:44

have any examples I was just wondering. I was like I wonder, I don't know I was, maybe I'll take that. Well, I could. We're going to edit that part out.

Speaker 2:
23:55

So there is something.

Speaker 1:
23:58

So I think, or myths about the club world, maybe yeah.

Speaker 2:
24:02

So one thing that I think is untrue now or at least we're working our way towards that think is untrue now, or at least we're working our way towards that is the thought that if you're in club management, your life is over.

Speaker 2:
24:16

You will not have any nights or weekends or don't plan on anything, because there was messaging that was sent to students within the industry at one time that you will not have a life.

Speaker 2:
24:29

Just get used to that and you know, because you're going to be working nights, weekends and holidays. But I think that has changed and really everyone is working harder than ever to bring I don't like to say complete balance, but to bring as much balance as you can to your personal life and your working life. And yes, you're going to be at the club for some major holidays and events, but that it doesn't have to be 80 hours a week, and so that message is finally starting to hit the college students again, is finally starting to hit the college students again, and Raleigh and I go to UW Stout every year to teach a class on club management, and so we like to share that too, that it has changed and you're not going to lose your life. You are going to work a lot. You're going to put some hours in, especially when you're starting out, but it doesn't have to be everything. You need to have time for yourself as well. I think everybody's getting on board with that. Figuring it out.

Speaker 1:
25:35

That was good. That was good, that was good. I like that the way that started. I didn't think that was going to end good, but that was good, that was good. Do you have any advice for someone just starting out in the club world? So you know, like you back in back in college, joining CMAA or finding out, or you know, looking back, what's what's. What's some good, good words of wisdom words to the wise.

Speaker 2:
26:02

Well, honestly, when I started in the industry and then quickly moved up to these assistant general manager and general manager roles, I got and I hear this all the time now as managing director I'm too busy. I'm too busy to go to this professional development session. And I had a great colleague who I went to college with and he would call me all the time and say, kathy, you know, the chapter is doing this event, you know, do you want to go? And I'd say there's no way. There's a way I can go, like I got this, I got that. I have to be seen here at the club, right, and that was a big mistake, mistake, big mistake. Anybody in the industry, whether you're just starting out or you've got tenure, you should be. Things change in this industry very rapidly and we have a great association, quite honestly, nationally and at the chapters across the country, across the country, and we should be taking advantage of those to stay up on the, the, the latest trends, the resources, everything. And I didn't do that.

Speaker 1:
27:15

The people, the relationships.

Speaker 2:
27:16

Yes, All of it. You're right, that's a big part to the networking, so that you can reach out to you know GM at XYZ club and say this is what I'm facing. I didn't utilize either of those enough when I was managing clubs and so that is a huge piece of advice that I give to people coming into the industry or new members within our chapters, and I wish I had actual data on this, actual hard numbers. But in my experience I have seen people not last at their clubs and it's usually associated with those individuals have not maybe attended anything, whether it be national or local. I haven't seen them attend anything and they are the ones that have quick turnover in their jobs. Like I said, I don't seen them attend anything and they are the ones that have quick turnover in their jobs. Like I said, I don't have the data, but I have the experience the seen this, I should start tracking it.

Speaker 1:
28:18

It sounds like you have the data. It's just putting it. I think you're probably.

Speaker 2:
28:22

I have no time. I have no time to put it in a chart. That's it.

Speaker 1:
28:30

This isn't work. What was the phrase? What did she say? You and your silly work. Oh, your real work. I have real work, your real work, you and your real graphs, your real data. But I want to thank you for coming on. This was a fantastic conversation. I just wanted to have a quick chat with you. I know you're a wealth of knowledge, especially now bringing on with Chicago, and that's not just given or asked of anyone.

Speaker 1:
29:00

Well, thank you, it's a pleasure to talk with you, doug. Hope you all enjoyed that episode. I know I did. Kathy, thank you so much for coming on and sharing some insight and knowledge Always means the world and love when our paths cross. I want to take a moment to thank all of our show partners and people who help make this show possible. We have Concert Golf Partners, boutique owner-operator of private golf and country clubs nationwide. We have our friends over at Members First, and our friends Kenneth's member vetting. If you have not done so already, like share, subscribe. The content's very easy to do, costs nothing and means the world to me and the channel. It's how we all grow. If you haven't done so already, you can sign up for our weekly newsletter. Head on over to privateclubradiocom right there at the top. Get all the updates on all the episodes and content we have coming out for the week. That's it Until next time. Catch on the flippity flip.