June 13, 2024
357: Flexibility and Adaptability in Leadership w/ Ralph Edmunds
We sit down with Ralph Edmonds from Evansville Country Club. Ralph’s journey from sous chef to general manager is a masterclass in flexibility and adaptability.
Discover how he’s handled unexpected challenges and hear his invaluable advice on member relations while keeping up with industry trends.
Join us for an in-depth exploration of Ralph's remarkable career path, starting from his early days at Pine Hollow Country Club in 1998. We traverse his experiences across prestigious hotels like the St. Regis and Sheridan Park Avenue, and his pivotal move into country club management. Influenced by his Italian upbringing and his mother’s work in diners, Ralph’s story is a testament to how passion and dedication can lead to a fulfilling career in general management.
From the evolution of club management careers to the unique hurdles faced in smaller cities, Ralph shares his firsthand experiences and insights. Learn how technological advancements have reshaped operational dynamics and member expectations over the past two decades. Don’t miss the engaging conversation on the logistical challenges and labor pool limitations,
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00:00 - Flexibility and Adaptability in Club Management
03:42 - Career Path in Country Clubs
09:09 - Evolution of Club Management Careers
24:07 - Guest Appreciation and Promotion Talk
WEBVTT
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Just like he said there improvise, adapt, overcome.
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You have to be flexible in this business, so you have to be prepared for anything that can be thrown your way, because it's going to happen and probably several times on the same event or outing, or whatever it may be outing or whatever it may be.
00:00:26.740 --> 00:00:41.979
So I think the most important thing is having a flexibility to be able to change and adapt not only to the times but also to the moment, because something is always happening that is going to throw a wrench into the works, and the better prepared you are to handle that, the better off you're going to be.
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Hey everyone, welcome back to Private Club Radio, the industry's choice for news, trends, updates and conversations all in the world of private golf and country clubs, from leadership, management, governance, food and beverage, marketing, branding you name it we got it all covered.
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Whether you're an industry professional or consummate professional industry veteran, welcome back.
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If you're brand new to the industry, then welcome.
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We are glad you're here.
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I'm your host, denny Corby.
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Welcome to the show.
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In this episode I chat with a friend of mine.
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We've been friends for probably about six, seven years now, mr Ralph Edmonds, over at the Evansville Country Club in Evansville, indiana.
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But I met him in Shreveport.
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I met him in Louisiana years ago and since then he has made his journey over to Indiana.
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We talk about how I loved his story because we talked cause.
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He started off as a shoe chef, shoe chef, sous chef and transitioned into management and up and then into general management roles, and he's worked at various high-end resorts and clubs all over the country.
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And now a quick word from some of our show partners.
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You're going to have a chat with Paul Dank.
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It's going to be good.
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He's a great guy.
00:03:36.201 --> 00:03:37.926
Also, be sure to check out our episodes of Member Vetting here on Private Club Radio.
00:03:37.926 --> 00:03:39.150
And now Private Club Radio listeners.
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Let's welcome Mr Ralph Edmonds.
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You know, probably not in the beginning my first country club job I took in 1998 as a sous chef.
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My first club job was in 94, but my first country club was in 98.
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I was hired on as the executive sous chef at Pine Hollow Country Club and about 10 months later the executive chef, who was Steve Vando, decided he was going to move into an AGM role and move in to try and become a general manager, which he did.
00:04:15.336 --> 00:04:24.012
So I mean that really started the hey, maybe I could do this to kind of train a thought.
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Gotcha and it was.
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You've had a mix of, because currently you're at Evansville in Indiana, then you're Shreveport, so and a lot of resorts before that and, like resorts, high end, types of places.
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It was a few few hotels.
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Yeah yeah, uh, types of places.
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It was a few few hotels.
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Yeah, yeah, back in the early nineties, um, right after I got out of the army, I was with the Sheridan park Avenue.
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I was part of the grand reopening team of the St Regis.
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I worked at the hotel Pierre Um okay, so yeah, and then, and somehow, clubs just sucked you in.
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Yeah, once I got into Pine Hollow, then another manager, jerry Sherhammer, who was the assistant GM at Elmwood Country Club at the time, he took a GM job at Columbian Country Club in Dallas and asked me to go down there, so which I did, and then I wound up working with Jerry at three different properties.
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So we worked together in Dallas, we worked together in Maryland and we worked together at the start in Shreveport, louisiana.
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Gotcha.
00:05:37.961 --> 00:05:46.247
So that was going to be one of my next question is, you know, because I was doing my research and digging around and I saw you were popping around a bit, so I was.
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I was gonna say like oh, were you following like another club professional?
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Because like, sometimes that's how it usually works, is like there's like a little like group, uh.
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So I wasn't sure there yeah, somebody goes somewhere and you get this call like, hey, I think this might be a good fit for you too, whatever.
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So got you and then and you did a small run by me in Pennsylvania, in Allentown.
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I did.
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Yeah, it was, uh, foglesville.
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Uh, a small, uh very high end B and B, which was.
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It's really a fantastic property 150 acres, only 37 luxury suites.
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We raised cattle and hogs on the property so we used those on the menu.
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Really a great place.
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It just wasn't the right place for me.
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Yeah, would it be safe to assume it was a little too slow-paced Would?
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it be safe to assume it was a little too slow-paced.
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No, I mean, sometimes when you're dealing with single owners, it's a little interesting.
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We'll say so.
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I retired on as the EC and the second day I was there I became general manager.
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Slash EC.
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Say no more.
00:07:07.829 --> 00:07:10.252
Say no more, all right, all right.
00:07:10.252 --> 00:07:17.966
So because to me in my head I was thinking about you know, you're doing all these resorts and beautiful places and then you go to I'm not saying it's not a beautiful place, but you go to some place like this, only 30 rooms.
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In my head I'm like, oh, maybe it was like a slower pace and wasn't a good fit.
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But say no more, fam.
00:07:24.988 --> 00:07:26.932
So how did you get into cooking?
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Like, why cooking?
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Why food?
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You know I started young.
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I mean my mother was a short order cook at diners around New York and she was either working in the front of the house or the back of the house.
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I mean there's pictures of me as an infant in a playpen in a kitchen, as an infant in a playpen in a kitchen.
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So you know, coming from an Italian family, the cooking is just in our blood.
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So it was really ingrained for me from a young age.
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I always loved it.
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And you know just the career path, the way it took me, gotcha, and so I've known you since Shreveport.
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And was that one of your?
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Was that like one of the first major GM?
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How dare you?
00:08:22.314 --> 00:08:22.793
What's?
00:08:24.214 --> 00:08:24.314
that?
00:08:24.314 --> 00:08:24.975
How dare you?
00:08:25.394 --> 00:08:44.000
No, I'm kidding, but went to a resort as a GM in their steakhouse and opened up no-transcript.
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Oh, no, oh, definitely For sure.
00:08:46.399 --> 00:08:57.582
No, that's a really good perspective and being able to leave that Because you probably created some different relationships, learned more about maybe some outside vendors and things- yeah, so I do this all 18-20.
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Right, so a lot of on-the-job training, a lot of self-teaching and putting myself in situations where I had the ability to pick up different pieces of information.
00:09:09.975 --> 00:09:13.426
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00:10:19.561 --> 00:10:21.687
You guessed it Concert Golf Partners.
00:10:22.914 --> 00:10:23.336
I was just.
00:10:23.336 --> 00:10:24.359
Who was I just talking to?
00:10:24.359 --> 00:10:31.081
Pretty much just about that, uh, but it was in terms of, like you know, with my background in like magic and entertainment.
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It's early on.
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You know, part of the I don't want to say the uh training, but it's encouraged.
00:10:36.062 --> 00:10:39.655
A lot of people don't do it, but it's like sort of different than this.
00:10:39.655 --> 00:10:50.037
But like put yourself in bad situations, meaning, like you know, make, like, go perform in a spot where you know you're not a good fit or where, like, the conditions aren't great.
00:10:50.037 --> 00:10:58.243
Like go see if you can perform that in, like in a corner room without a sound system, no microphone, and have people like like almost behind you.
00:10:58.243 --> 00:11:00.174
So similar, like different, like the same.
00:11:00.174 --> 00:11:07.865
But just like you know you put yourself in different scenarios, different situations, just so when you do come up into something it's not like a surprise.
00:11:07.865 --> 00:11:11.575
So basically, yeah, ojt, I'm on the job training.
00:11:11.575 --> 00:11:14.144
Just the difference between a chef and a magician.
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Yeah, it's funny because we often talk about tenure and staying with something and doing it.
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Chef at the Sheridan Park Avenue, mike Stafford, you know he said, ralph, you should move every six months and learn as much as you can from as many people as you can to help you develop your own style.
00:11:38.176 --> 00:11:45.017
And you know at some point in your career that needs to change and you need to be tenured and need to be stable.
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But early on I think it's so important for you to be able to not become stagnant.
00:11:54.356 --> 00:12:00.764
And that's clear through your experience and what you've done I think was one of your longest stays at the Shreveport Club.
00:12:01.836 --> 00:12:04.335
Shreveport Club, columbian Club in Dallas.
00:12:04.335 --> 00:12:09.923
I was there for about six years, so yeah, those two were probably the longest.
00:12:09.923 --> 00:12:16.083
Here in Evansville is hopefully my last stop.
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You know, this is it.
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I'm going to try and stay here and into retirement and we'll hope that happens.
00:12:25.995 --> 00:12:30.486
What are some differences between Shreveport and Evansville, Indiana?
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Outside of the weather, it's really.
00:12:36.863 --> 00:12:41.629
There's a lot of similarities just because they're two small cities.
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They're both the third largest city in their respective state, so we face similar challenges.
00:12:48.119 --> 00:12:49.720
Right, the third largest city in their respective state.
00:12:49.720 --> 00:12:51.240
So we face similar challenges.
00:12:51.240 --> 00:12:56.403
Right, there's not a huge labor pool when you're in a smaller place.
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Your resources are lessened if you're in a smaller city.
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So a lot of times your deliveries are coming from, you know, hours away, and those hours, unlike in New York, are not driven by traffic, right, these are driven by miles.
00:13:16.481 --> 00:13:25.333
So when you're facing that, it's hard to you know, we have a mispick, All right, we'll get it over to you in 20 minutes, Like no, we'll see you tomorrow, you know.
00:13:25.333 --> 00:13:29.145
So you know those are some of the challenges of a small city.
00:13:29.145 --> 00:13:38.570
And the recruiting part you know, regardless of the ad you put out, you get the same 30 or 40 resumes every time.
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Here comes Bob again.
00:13:43.181 --> 00:13:48.524
Do you watch the show Parks and Rec?
00:13:50.596 --> 00:13:51.116
No, I haven't seen it.
00:13:51.136 --> 00:14:26.225
Oh, okay, there is, uh, there's like this one dumb episode where these two uh, let's just say less than stellar, uh, employees from the um, uh, uh, like fishing game or like you know whoever goes and gets, like you know the stray animals or whatever, and they get fired and they both show up to like the interview for like the same job, but they don't like realize like oh, this is the same job oh, we're in the same place uh and the worst part is we're Like, yeah, you're rehired.
00:14:32.551 --> 00:14:34.172
You've been in the industry a while.
00:14:41.215 --> 00:14:43.256
How has the industry changed in your point of view over the past?
00:14:43.256 --> 00:14:44.457
Let's just even say 15 years, 20 years.
00:14:44.457 --> 00:14:54.125
You know, technology is, of course, the biggest change on the things that we can do and those aren't always necessarily great from an operational standpoint.
00:14:54.125 --> 00:14:56.187
Right, We've gotten all this technology.
00:14:56.187 --> 00:15:10.875
And you know, when I was a cook or a chef or a sous chef, you know I could place orders until midnight or 2 am or something you know.
00:15:10.875 --> 00:15:13.649
Now our chef here, you know he's got to have his orders in by four o'clock in the afternoon.
00:15:13.649 --> 00:15:15.054
I'm like, oh, thank God for technology.
00:15:15.054 --> 00:15:19.623
Yeah, those things are challenging.
00:15:19.623 --> 00:15:27.159
And then there's an expectation, especially in clubs, with your membership, right, because they want you to continue to grow and change with the times.
00:15:27.159 --> 00:15:28.642
Right, because they want you to continue to grow and change with the times.
00:15:28.642 --> 00:15:36.953
And then you've got to figure out, you know, the financials of that and sometimes that doesn't always translate in the board meeting.
00:15:40.576 --> 00:15:47.159
Yeah, here's a question, and I think I'm going to phrase it right, Don't take it the wrong way.
00:15:47.159 --> 00:15:51.162
You went from chef to GM.
00:15:51.162 --> 00:15:54.583
Now you're a GM at a club.
00:15:54.583 --> 00:16:00.846
Do you see that as a demotion?
00:16:00.846 --> 00:16:06.649
Like, how do you, you know, because I think different people take it, take different things, certain ways.
00:16:06.649 --> 00:16:10.211
So to you, is it a strategic move?
00:16:10.211 --> 00:16:12.592
What sort of move was that?
00:16:12.592 --> 00:16:14.596
And what sort of feeling is that?
00:16:14.596 --> 00:16:15.778
And like, is there any like?
00:16:15.778 --> 00:16:22.570
So is that a, I guess, demotion to say which I don't know if that's the right way to put it, but like you know, going in that sort of like realm.
00:16:33.514 --> 00:16:34.956
It's 100% percent accurate, right.
00:16:34.956 --> 00:16:37.380
So one there's no, there's no bad career moves right.
00:16:37.380 --> 00:16:52.009
They're all learning experiences and so part of it and I'll start by saying Shreveport Club was a city club, so I've been out of country clubs for six years basically before coming back into the country club world.
00:16:52.009 --> 00:17:03.861
So taking this role gave me an opportunity to get back in reacquaint myself with the sports aspect of it and you know that was very important.
00:17:03.861 --> 00:17:06.819
But I was also hired on here.
00:17:06.819 --> 00:17:11.588
Uh, gary Shetler, who's our general manager, has been here 40 years.
00:17:11.588 --> 00:17:30.175
He's retiring in June, so my hiring was a succession plan four zero four.
00:17:30.195 --> 00:17:30.896
Yeah, yeah, he's a unicorn.
00:17:30.896 --> 00:17:31.377
Four zero, yeah, mike.
00:17:31.377 --> 00:17:32.019
What did the dude open?
00:17:32.039 --> 00:17:32.220
the club.
00:17:32.220 --> 00:17:33.142
Did he build it with his bare hands?
00:17:33.142 --> 00:17:40.795
Essentially because he started in 84 as the superintendent and he was in that role for 25 years and then he's been gm for the last 15.
00:17:40.795 --> 00:17:44.962
For 25 years and then he's been GM for the last 15.
00:17:44.962 --> 00:17:45.063
Damn.
00:17:45.063 --> 00:17:57.358
So this gave me an opportunity to work with him, pick his brain, really get some institutional knowledge and hopefully expedite the success that I could have here at the club.
00:17:58.844 --> 00:17:59.125
Gotcha.
00:17:59.125 --> 00:18:09.941
Yeah, and I only ask that because I'm having like another similar conversation with somebody else I'm recording in a few weeks and when this airs out I don't know how it's all going to come out, but it's just like a similar thing.
00:18:09.941 --> 00:18:13.364
Just because you know it was's not an up and down.
00:18:13.364 --> 00:18:14.785
I don't, I don't see it as a demotion.
00:18:14.785 --> 00:18:25.000
I'm, I'm, I'm the same way.
00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:31.825
It's like you know, everything's a learning experience, but always interested to see how people feel and interpret and take different things and situations and stuff.
00:18:31.825 --> 00:18:32.787
But no, oh, gotcha.
00:18:33.676 --> 00:18:38.468
We only have, you know, 5,300 clubs or whatever it is in the States, right?
00:18:38.468 --> 00:18:44.799
So there's only 5,300 jobs.
00:18:44.799 --> 00:18:45.625
So I mean something has to be available.
00:18:45.625 --> 00:18:46.166
It has to be the right fit.
00:18:46.166 --> 00:18:52.548
If you take something that's not the right fit for you, it's going to be evident pretty clearly, pretty immediately to you, to the board, to the membership.
00:18:52.548 --> 00:18:54.659
So you got to find the right fit.
00:18:54.659 --> 00:18:58.976
You have to find the right pieces because you know a lot of.
00:18:58.976 --> 00:19:03.626
That's why we have such a short tenureship as a GM.
00:19:03.626 --> 00:19:08.707
It's because sometimes we're just trying to take the role instead of maybe finding the fit.
00:19:11.137 --> 00:19:26.635
Which is sometimes hard to do, Because it's got to be difficult, especially when there's clubs or places where they're like oh we would love to have you, but you just know you're like, I know you'd love to have me, but it not a good fit, Like, I just don't think it'll be good, and sometimes that's gotta be hard.
00:19:27.519 --> 00:19:30.486
Um well, it's a challenge You're, you're sometimes faced with.
00:19:30.486 --> 00:19:32.298
You know, what do I do?
00:19:32.298 --> 00:19:34.284
You know, you, you gotta take care of your family.
00:19:34.284 --> 00:19:35.125
You gotta do this.
00:19:35.125 --> 00:19:47.874
You you maybe have, you know, come to a different path with your board and they're going in a direction that you don't want to go in.
00:19:47.874 --> 00:19:59.165
So you're trying to figure out a whole slew of things at one time and you don't always have all the time in the world to make the right decision.
00:19:59.185 --> 00:19:59.527
Yeah, gotcha.
00:19:59.527 --> 00:20:01.777
So what's on the horizon for you in the club?
00:20:01.777 --> 00:20:04.204
Tell us a little bit more about the club.
00:20:04.204 --> 00:20:06.999
How many members you have, how long has the club been around?
00:20:06.999 --> 00:20:08.984
Give us some scoop.
00:20:09.346 --> 00:20:12.444
Yeah, so Evansville Country Club has been here since 1900.
00:20:12.444 --> 00:20:15.643
So we are going to have our 125th anniversary next year.
00:20:15.643 --> 00:20:21.205
Wow, the club just finished a major renovation on the golf course.
00:20:21.205 --> 00:20:27.887
A lot of that was done, completed June of last year.
00:20:27.887 --> 00:20:29.641
Course is phenomenal.
00:20:29.641 --> 00:20:32.401
What did you guys do to it?
00:20:32.401 --> 00:20:49.242
They reworked a lot of the greens, moved over to pure distinction, a hybrid turf for the greens, redid some of the fairways, the bunkers.
00:20:49.242 --> 00:20:51.442
It was about $7 million.
00:20:51.442 --> 00:20:53.182
Bo Welling was the architect.
00:20:53.182 --> 00:21:00.647
But I mean, we've had nothing but rave reviews and it's only going to get better as the turf sits.
00:21:03.900 --> 00:21:07.788
Jeff Sexton, are you going to do anything with the irrigation and stuff?
00:21:08.555 --> 00:21:10.643
Yeah, I'm sure that some of that was done.
00:21:10.643 --> 00:21:11.719
We still have work to do.
00:21:11.719 --> 00:21:14.563
For sure, you know clubs are always a work in progress.
00:21:14.563 --> 00:21:17.923
You know the next project is going to be halfway house.
00:21:17.923 --> 00:21:25.538
We'll have some clubhouse work budgeted here coming up in the next few years and then we'll be right back on the course again.
00:21:25.538 --> 00:21:29.748
But we also put in new pickleball courts, redid tennis.
00:21:29.748 --> 00:21:36.528
So there's so many positive things going on and the membership is fantastic.
00:21:38.536 --> 00:21:39.358
How many memberships do you have?
00:21:39.358 --> 00:21:40.625
750.
00:21:40.625 --> 00:21:43.401
Are you on a wait list?
00:21:45.798 --> 00:21:46.762
We're right there.
00:21:46.762 --> 00:22:00.138
So that's always a blurry line on yes or no, because you want to be able to accommodate folks, but you also don't want to overcrowd the facilities.
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