383: Evolving Club Dynamics w/ Eric Brey Ph.D. GGA Partners

Transcript

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Hey everybody welcome back to the Private Club Radio Show podcast, the industry's choice for news trends, updates and conversations all in the world of private golf and country clubs.

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Greetings to all the industry veterans and the fresh faces joining us here on the show.

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Thank you all for joining us.

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I'm your host, Denny Corby.

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Appreciate you being here listening.

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And this is the show.

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We go over any and all topics related to private golf and country clubs.

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Just like a radio station has a bunch of different songs and stations, this is a show that has a bunch of different topics that we go over, but all focused on private golf and country clubs.

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And I'm chatting with Eric Bray from GGA Partners about a study that they did on member perspectives and preferences.

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And in this study and in the conversation we talk about how the emotional connection in the club culture are very highly valued, but more specifically by younger members, and we also go on to talk about and highlight, you know, the importance of the access to amenities, the service levels, the social interactions.

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We touch on the challenges of creating a welcoming environment and building social networks within clubs and also the use of technology in clubs, because it's trying to find that balance of high touch and high tech experiences with member facing technologies.

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And, to wrap it all up, we then conclude our conversation with strategies that clubs can use on how they can use the research to find and enhance their member experiences and loyalty.

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So it's a really cool episode, really fun findings.

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Excited Eric's on here to be sharing that with us.

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I just want to give a quick thanks to some of our show partners.

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We have Kenes Member Vetting.

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If you're looking to upgrade your current member vetting process, you got to check out membervettingcom.

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Also, check out our other episodes of member vetting with Kenneth's member vetting here on here on private club radio.

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But it's about making sure the people who are coming into your club are who they say they are and are the right fit for the club Membervettingcom.

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We have our friends golf life navigators, which is a really cool platform for golf enthusiasts looking for their next or current dream home, dream facility, dream community to be a part of it's marketing without marketing, advertising, without advertising.

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If you would like to be a part of this, head on over to golflifenavigatorscom, set up a call with someone from the team, book it back to you.

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It's going to be a great chat and if you're looking for one of the most fun member event nights you and your club are going to have, Hi, I'm Denny Corby.

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I have the Denny Corby experience.

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There's excitement, there's mystery, there's magic, there's mind reading, there's comedy.

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It is the most fun you and your club are going to have guaranteed.

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If you'd like to learn more about the show, head on over to dennycorbycom.

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You can see various clips from some of my TV appearances on Fox, ABC, NBC, the CW, the Huckabee Show, Penn Teller Fool Us.

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I've been around.

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But if you want to learn more, head on over to DennyCorbycom.

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But right now, listeners, let's welcome to the show.

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Eric Bray.

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Three club members perspective report which, if I can summarize, shows club members valuable emotional connection, or shows that clubs value emotional connection more than cost, especially with younger members who are willing to pay more for a better club experience.

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Does that pretty much sum it up?

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I mean it does.

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Ultimately, what we wanted to find out is where do members find the most value?

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You know as well as I do that in clubs we're always talking about price and that price-value comparison which is so important.

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But when we look at those statements around, where members are getting their most value, come to find out that it's that emotional connection, man, that they're really feeling.

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You walk into that club, you see your friends, you see your family.

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It's that joy in knowing that you've always got someone that you know there to enjoy your time with.

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And how many clubs?

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Where'd you pull your data Like?

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Tell us what the pool is from.

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So we we found, or we recruited, about 20 volunteer clubs, if you will, in North America, canada and the U?

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S, and from there you know, they had to go through the process of sending it out to their members, and what we found is that we got about 3,700 club members throughout North America to complete our survey, to help give us this data and give us the insights we were looking for.

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Oh snap.

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So it's a really robust sample size.

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So when we talk about the results, we're pretty confident that this is a pretty broad spectrum.

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We're talking golf clubs, we're talking yacht, we're talking city Just a great mix of not only clubs but different types of members.

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What were some of your biggest takeaways, or maybe your biggest surprises?

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Was there any data you're like?

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We did not expect that.

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Like were there any like?

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Was there any data?

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You're like we did not expect that.

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I mean, when you think about it, a lot of what we looked at is is really understanding or trying to develop a deeper understanding of what club members are truly looking for.

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And when I think about data that really stood out, I think it's this taking a deeper look at younger members and, more importantly, female members and what they see in the future of the club industry.

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Those two really popped out as something unique and let me give you a little more detail on that From a female standpoint.

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If we look at the mean value or the median value, the majority of amenities and services, females identified as significantly more important, and so what that tells us is that, as equity continues to grow in the private club space and we see this growth of families, it's not going to slow down, but the expectations are going to adjust, they're going to change, and when we look at something like those amenities golf and casual dining were in line with different age groups, different genders, if you will, but from a female standpoint, outside of golf and dining, everything was a step up.

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That expectation is different.

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There was something that you mentioned when we first talked, and it was the amount of members that don't feel welcome at their club.

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That was wild.

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So when you look at the data, denny it really.

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How do I say this?

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It's not data that's going to jump out to you.

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So we asked the question, you know, do you feel welcome at your club?

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And 88 out of 100 members said yes.

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So at face value, you're like, well, that's a really good number.

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I mean, you know, 8.8 people out of 10, they feel welcome.

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But if you look at that, that means that more than 10% of club members right now, at this time and space, does not feel welcome at their club.

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And you know that could mean just a variety of different things.

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You know, when we looked at the data, I tried to jump into it and we really didn't have the types of questions that would allow us to really look at that, because that was not a number that we were expecting.

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But you know it could be.

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Is it junior members?

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You know, not being in a space where you know they and their family feel welcome yet, or welcome enough.

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Maybe it's senior members that are saying, look, the club is changing too fast, I don't feel welcome here.

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Maybe it is underrepresented populations that are saying, look, this club is still not for me, I don't feel welcome here.

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Right now we're going through a great time in the club industry.

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I mean, waiting lists are strong, membership is active, everyone is really enjoying kind of that post-COVID club experience.

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But it's the fact that 10% moving forward, that's where there could be potential weakness.

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And then you look further into that data and we always want to know about the social environment, because that social piece is so key, and what we found there is that 32% of members find it challenging to create social networks or make friends at clubs.

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So that's greater than three out of 10 members are like I'm just not feeling it.

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How to make friends, how to make those connections?

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Clubs are doing their part to providing opportunities, but is it the right opportunity?

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Is it enough opportunity?

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Because when you look at that 10%, you look at that 30%.

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Those are the folks that are saying, look, I don't feel welcome here and I'm not making friends right now.

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And so when you look at that data, that's a really interesting statistics that club leaders have to pay attention to because it's going to impact us at some point in the near future.

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Now, mind you, I am horrible at math and data, so prefacing pretty much the whole conversation around this.

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So, going back, would you say that can be like the female influence.

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Is that what you were saying?

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I don't know if I want to draw that conclusion, Danny.

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to be quite honest, In my head I was like okay, is there a correlation between unhappy members and the uptick in the female Like?

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Is like the unhappy members?

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Is it like go to clubs?

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Is that you know there is?

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this continuous drive for that equitable access and come to find out that in this data set, males rated that higher than females, which is a pretty interesting statement in that males really agreed with the importance of equitable at a high level.

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Look, female respondents did too, but male members saw it as even more important than female members.

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Well, I would hope so.

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No, what were some other takeaways and things that you've pulled from from that data?

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I think one of the things that we really want to try and look at, denny, that is what our members looking for.

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You know every member has their own reason, their own desire for being a member of a club.

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But through this research we were able to identify that motivations for club usage really fall into one of six buckets.

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And as we look at those six buckets, that can really tell a lot about a membership and what they're looking for.

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And when we think about those buckets, you know the first one is the ability to access and use the club amenities.

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You know that was the most important desire as identified by the membership.

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If I'm a club member, I want to be able to get in there, I want to be able to use the amenities that could be.

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Is it open?

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Is it convenient for my time?

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Is it geographically close?

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You know that was number one.

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Number two is that club culture.

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So I talked a little bit about how you know clubs are emotional.

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You know they want that social connection, that social value, and we found that an overall culture and the right feeling of the club environment is that second most important attribute.

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You know that was less than the club amenity accessibility, but it was definitely a clear number two.

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The third bucket that we looked at is that kind of that service expectation or overall comfort.

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I want to come to my club, I want to feel comfortable and I want to have great service.

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But it's important to know that for all we talk about and all you know, members and leaders say, look, I've got it.

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We got to have great service, still not trumped by having a great culture, and you've got to be able to access and use those amenities.

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So, while service is important, that culture, that thing that we, that we strive so hard to maintain and build from a cultural standpoint, it's number two.

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Number four is those interactions with other members, the ability to interact, really, whether it be through dining, whether it be special events, those kinds of social environment access or components of the experience.

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Number five are the activities, the events, entertainment.

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Do you have live music?

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Do you have things that entertain me, get me to come in on the weeknights or on the weekends, much like Memorial Day weekend.

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And then the lowest or the least important was that level of personal fulfillment, and a lot of this revolves around that professional development.

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For the longest time, clubs were a place to, especially in larger cities you got together.

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It was a place to see and be seen, to bring out potential clients, which still exists in a lot of great clubs across the US.

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But that's not necessarily as high as those other areas that we found from a member desire or motivation standpoint.

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What are you seeing with the younger generations?

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I know you found some data and information on that when it comes to like expectations with clubs, because now you're having, you know, sometimes three generations of a family in a club.

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I mean it all comes down to.

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What we see in a lot of clubs is you're having a tectonic shift when it comes from what I would call the silent generation or those who are, you know, octogenarians or older compared to millennials.

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You know, the new, the young, families, people have different expectations, and when we look at those differences, everyone wants to talk about how these different generations are different, but I want to talk more about how they're similar.

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When you look at those six areas, there were substantial differences.

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For instance, millennials, when you compare it to average rating, they see it as significantly more important, while the silent generation sees it as significantly less important, and so that might be where some of that friction comes in, because you have those differences.

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But what clubs can do is they can focus on those amenities or those items that are commonly ranked throughout, and what we found in our research is that it's the social environment.

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The social environment maintains similar scores across all four areas, and so using that as a platform, you know, clubs and leaders can really find a way to bring members together because they do share that overall similar expectation.

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Along those same lines, we look at casual dining and fine dining.

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We know fine dining has fallen out of grace.

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It's still important, it's still a great thing to have once in a while, but it's not as important as it once was.

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But when you look at that dining experience, which again probably ties to that social relationship, they're ranked very similar.

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There are no significant differences.

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So there are differences.

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I mean younger members typically look at amenities and services more important simply because they're going to be using it longer, whereas the more seasoned members don't see it as important.

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But when you look at those commonalities, that's the way clubs can find a way to move forward in dealing with some of these generational frictions that we see at a lot of clubs.

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Is there a way for clubs to use that information for their marketing?

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I mean I think there will be, you know, in the future.

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You know, as you look at right now, the club industry is really in a good spot when it comes to members.

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But from a marketing standpoint, you know, finding those commonalities, that saying, look, we have a place that provides for every generation we found that you know, quote unquote secret sauce and really leaning into that and being able to talk about how they look at these commonalities and they're providing for everyone while still taking care of the individual needs of different generations, is something they can absolutely talk about.

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So, now that we have all of this, what are, what are strategies that you think like, what are some key takeaways, what are, like, some actionable steps clubs can take to use to ensure that they can do something with this information?

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So I think you know, first and foremost, look at commonalities and then look at future vision.

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So one thing we did was we wanted to look at what was a club member's future vision for amenities and services.

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And number one was important to offer a memorable guest dining experience For those who are listening.

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We know that's hard, you know there are, there are clubs who they find the right chef, they find that right mix, but that really is putting that investment into that food and beverage and really enhancing that front of the house service.

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You know they have members, have expectations, and that really is that that number one.

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You know, looking at that, that common place, you know.

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Second is making sure that members can access the amenities when they want it.

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You know, looking at that common place, you know.

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Second is making sure that members can access the amenities when they want it.

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You know we could tie results to this survey from some of our previous research and we know that there's still a large number of clubs who aren't necessarily surveying their members on a regular basis, asking them what they want.

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You know we've done a really good job of kind of looking at the playing field, working off of, you know, our experiences, our history to make those decisions, but surveys and asking the members what they want and when they want, it really is something that clubs should be looking at, because that will provide that hard data that will allow management to make those hard decisions as to when something should be open or when something shouldn't be open.

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And then finally and this was something that, when you asked me, what really stood out I'm always tentative to say this, but when you look at the future of amenities, the lowest rated on here was the embracing of modern technologies when it comes to member-facing experiences.

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As we talk about AI, as we talk about all these great technologies that are out there, when you look at club members, they might not want that quite yet when it comes to their own experience, and so there's a lot of great technology out there that club leaders should be exploring and examining.

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But it's also making sure that you balance, that you're still looking at those high touch areas as something that you've got to make sure and validate that the technology makes sense for your members, because the results of this study, while it might be counterintuitive as we look at where the industry is going study, while it might be counterintuitive as we look at where the industry is going right now.

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Members still want to have that one-on-one interaction with their with the employees that they've come to know and love.

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Touch, touch a little bit more on on technology what, what types of technology are we talking about?

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Like?

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Are we talking about apps?

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Are we talking about, you know, point of sale, like, like sales style, like, like?

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What are we talking about?

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Apps?

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Are we talking about?

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Point of sale, like sales style?

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What are we talking about when you're talking about tech?

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So we didn't jump into that depth.

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All we wanted to know is if member-facing technologies, what was the overall interest?

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So having a POS system that allows for quicker service, easier service, you know that's more kind of behind, that can be more behind the scenes.

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It just really comes down to you know, when you go to some restaurants and you've got that, that, that technology, right in front of you as you're making orders that might not be where club members are right now.

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Oh yeah, one of the you know so.

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So, because we didn't, you know, again, this was one of those things that surprised us and so what we started to look at as um for one of our next studies.

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We've actually partnered with the CMAA on our annual club leaders perspective research.

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We started asking that technology question about what technology are they pursuing, what challenges are they finding?

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As a follow-up, because we didn't have enough data.

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I can't go out there, denny, and say this is what a club should do.

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We didn't ask that because we didn't expect it.

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Now we're asking those questions of club leaders to say, look, we found this result from the members, what are you all doing when it comes to technology?

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So maybe I'll have that answer for you in a couple of months, but right now I just can't be definitive because the data it isn't there and so it would be disingenuous of me to say anything of any concrete.

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You know, this is what I know.

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No, I was just wondering, like you know, in terms of like, what tech meant you know?

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So, yeah, no, that answers it well.

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You know.

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So, yeah, no, that answers it well.

00:22:13.653 --> 00:22:23.160
I think the one thing that I didn't we didn't talk about before this, denny, was we wanted to know why members might leave their club.

00:22:23.160 --> 00:22:25.303
We asked that in our previous version.

00:22:25.303 --> 00:22:41.618
You know the first iteration was in 2020 during COVID, which is an anomaly, and you know I definitely have to put that footnote out there.

00:22:41.618 --> 00:22:43.545
But we wanted to find out how member thinking had changed since then.

00:22:43.565 --> 00:22:50.785
And when you look at what could cause members to leave, the biggest increases we had was decreased service levels and reduction of services offered.

00:22:50.785 --> 00:23:02.638
So members see things getting more expensive and they see that potential impact on the level of service they're getting and how much or when those services are offered.

00:23:02.638 --> 00:23:16.529
So if you look at the number one reason why members find value, if you will, in the club, and it's about having access to their amenities, it's no surprise that the reduction of services offered is going to be a concern.

00:23:16.529 --> 00:23:19.523
You know I want to play golf, I want to go to the pool.

00:23:19.523 --> 00:23:21.422
I can't do it when I want to.

00:23:21.422 --> 00:23:22.840
That's a concern for me.

00:23:23.655 --> 00:23:40.403
The big number that I think is important for you know, for club, you know leaders, industry experts to hear about is that you know there was a 14% drop in members saying they are unlikely to leave their club, and so there's an enhanced loyalty.

00:23:40.403 --> 00:23:49.778
All this great activity we've seen in the last four years of enhancing amenities, building out opportunities, is doing what it's supposed to.

00:23:49.778 --> 00:23:56.664
Members have increased stickiness and they have less inclination to leave.

00:23:56.664 --> 00:23:59.955
They love what they're doing and they want to stick around and experience it.

00:24:02.623 --> 00:24:07.756
So you have data like you reached, like you have data on the people that left and why they left.

00:24:08.998 --> 00:24:09.419
That was just.

00:24:09.419 --> 00:24:11.041
We were just asking them why they would leave.

00:24:11.803 --> 00:24:12.845
Oh, why they would leave.

00:24:12.845 --> 00:24:15.028
Yeah, okay, right, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.

00:24:15.028 --> 00:24:21.042
Oh, I was like that would be one Interview the people who left.

00:24:22.434 --> 00:24:27.968
That would be something we've looked at but, as I'm sure you can understand, there are some challenges to get ahold of those folks.

00:24:28.736 --> 00:24:29.636
Do you have anything like?

00:24:29.656 --> 00:24:41.936
do you have like a like the report they can check out, or whatever, the easiest way is just to go to ggapartnerscom and in the right-hand corner you'll see a search bar.

00:24:41.936 --> 00:24:44.722
Just search club members perspective.

00:24:44.722 --> 00:24:49.179
That's the easiest way to get to the URL where the report is housed.

00:24:49.980 --> 00:24:50.823
Hope you all enjoyed that.

00:24:50.823 --> 00:24:56.803
If you did a like, share, subscribe, share it with a friend, share it with a colleague, someone you like, someone you don't like, it doesn't matter.

00:24:56.803 --> 00:24:58.700
As long as you're sharing the information, we all good.

00:24:58.700 --> 00:25:06.784
And if you are liking it, a five-star rating and a review, on whatever platform you're consuming, means the absolute world that's this episode.

00:25:06.784 --> 00:25:08.537
I'm your host, denny Corby.