419: Elevating Golf & Agronomy Careers w/ Tyler Bloom

Transcript

WEBVTT

00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:14.683
Hey everybody, welcome to the Private Club Radio Show, where we give you the scoop on all things private golf and country clubs From mastering, leadership and management, food and beverage excellence, member engagement secrets, board governance and everything in between, all while keeping it fun and light.

00:00:14.683 --> 00:00:20.364
Whether you're a club veteran just getting your feet wet or somewhere in the middle, you are in the right place.

00:00:20.364 --> 00:00:22.089
I'm your host, denny Corby.

00:00:22.089 --> 00:00:23.594
Welcome to the show.

00:00:23.594 --> 00:00:38.881
In this episode I am chatting with Tyler Bloom from Bloom Golf Partners and we're talking about how he turned a career in golf course maintenance into a thriving business that is reshaping the private club workforce.

00:00:39.542 --> 00:00:44.917
Tyler and I met not too too long ago and it turns out we live very close to each other.

00:00:44.917 --> 00:00:48.003
He went to school with my wife and her sister man.

00:00:48.003 --> 00:01:00.865
The world is so small and just continues to get smaller the more I travel and network and meet new people, and who would have thought that private golf and country clubs would have brought us a little bit closer?

00:01:00.865 --> 00:01:19.700
But this is just a fantastic episode and we talk about his story, how he got started in golf and in agronomy and how his love for the golf industry turned into a passion for workforce development, where he is helping clubs find, retain and attract top tier talent in agronomy.

00:01:19.700 --> 00:01:26.534
We touch on some creative solutions, youth apprenticeship programs that are game changers for staffing.

00:01:26.534 --> 00:01:40.631
We talk about what clubs are doing right and wrong when it comes to the talent acquisition and how Tyler balances, you know, niche expertise and experiences with big picture thinking to really bring clubs closer together and to help them thrive.

00:01:41.301 --> 00:01:49.444
And he is also the host of his own podcast, leadership on the Links, which I highly recommend and want you to check out.

00:01:49.444 --> 00:01:53.400
Just search Leadership on the Links wherever you consume your podcasts.

00:01:53.400 --> 00:02:04.760
Before we get to the podcast, I want to give a big shout out, big thanks to some of our show partners Concert Golf Partners, kenneth's Member, vetting and Golf Life Navigators, as well as myself.

00:02:04.760 --> 00:02:09.908
The Denny Corby Experience there's excitement, there's mystery, vetting and golf life navigators, as well as myself.

00:02:09.908 --> 00:02:11.252
The Denny Corby experience.

00:02:11.252 --> 00:02:12.112
There's excitement, there's mystery.

00:02:12.112 --> 00:02:14.537
Also there's magic, mind reading, comedy, crowd work, banter.

00:02:14.537 --> 00:02:15.117
It is so much fun.

00:02:15.117 --> 00:02:18.645
One of the most fun member event nights your club will have guaranteed.

00:02:18.645 --> 00:02:20.854
If you want to learn more, head on over to dennycorbycom.

00:02:22.240 --> 00:02:36.804
But right now, private club radio listeners, let's welcome to the show my friend in soon to be yours, tyler bloom, and then we're going to Miami next Wednesday for the orange bowl and, who knows, maybe maybe go into Atlanta for the national championship.

00:02:37.044 --> 00:02:38.567
Oh snap, You're yours.

00:02:38.567 --> 00:02:39.829
Hitting, hitting everything.

00:02:41.192 --> 00:02:46.300
Yeah, yeah, well, you only live once right.

00:02:46.300 --> 00:02:47.743
Yeah, yeah, well, you only live once right, that's true, that's true.

00:02:47.743 --> 00:02:49.508
And and if you're a Penn State fan, you know this only comes around once every.

00:02:49.508 --> 00:02:52.116
You know, 30 years, so yeah, I.

00:02:52.377 --> 00:02:55.647
I don't follow college football, so I've yeah, we're nuts.

00:02:55.687 --> 00:03:13.949
We're nuts about college oh, I know, oh, I know our uh, our mutual friend, tom Wallace and I have been uh, going back and forth like like texting about, you know, buckeyes, penn State, and I said to him last I texted him last night I said, dude, if both teams win, we're going to Atlanta and we're going to sit, we're getting tickets and we're going together.

00:03:15.169 --> 00:03:26.415
You guys should have like face paint, go like be like the polar opposites and just like have like a fake battle to try, try to get like, oh my God, you guys should do like a fake fight, go like you know viral.

00:03:26.415 --> 00:03:29.098
Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah.

00:03:35.060 --> 00:03:36.527
Well, we'll have you know it'll be the KKW Ohio.

00:03:36.647 --> 00:03:39.000
State brand versus the Penn State TB brand.

00:03:39.360 --> 00:03:44.606
What was your background when I was, when I was 15, I first started working at our local private club, berwick Golf Club, and I was hired.

00:03:44.606 --> 00:03:49.312
I first started working at our local private club, burwick golf club, and I was hired in the in the bag room, you know, with the pro shop.

00:03:49.312 --> 00:03:58.048
I didn't even make it a day and the golf golf professional said I don't think this is the right spot for you.

00:03:58.068 --> 00:03:59.455
I think you should go down to the maintenance building Now.

00:03:59.455 --> 00:04:02.365
Was it because you talk too much or was like what was the like?

00:04:02.365 --> 00:04:04.991
Were you like, like, like what gets you kicked out of there?

00:04:08.360 --> 00:04:10.087
Well, I, I, I don't know.

00:04:10.087 --> 00:04:12.207
It was the biggest mistake they ever made, I guess.

00:04:12.207 --> 00:04:14.307
But I'm not, I'm not quite sure.

00:04:14.307 --> 00:04:19.651
I'm looking back and just thinking I didn't fit the culture, the team.

00:04:19.651 --> 00:04:20.572
I don't know.

00:04:20.572 --> 00:04:21.925
I mean the first day.

00:04:21.925 --> 00:04:22.807
I mean I showed up.

00:04:22.807 --> 00:04:24.661
It's not like I didn't show up, so I don't know.

00:04:24.661 --> 00:04:25.101
I mean the first day.

00:04:25.101 --> 00:04:26.663
I mean I showed up, you know, it's not like I didn't show up, so I don't know.

00:04:26.663 --> 00:04:31.709
It's it's a mystery that someday, you know, I'll have to figure out what it was.

00:04:31.709 --> 00:04:35.814
It's ironic that now you know I'm a, you know it's a small private club, it's nothing.

00:04:35.814 --> 00:04:37.355
As you know Northeast PA, it's nothing.

00:04:37.355 --> 00:04:40.622
We're not paying a hundred thousand dollar initiation fees or anything.

00:04:40.622 --> 00:04:43.146
But it's funny, it's full circle, because now I play there, I'm a member.

00:04:43.146 --> 00:04:49.848
It's just such a cool thing to have those nostalgic moments of like man.

00:04:49.848 --> 00:04:51.112
This is where my career started.

00:04:51.600 --> 00:04:54.911
I'm still in the golf industry in a totally different capacity.

00:04:54.911 --> 00:04:59.810
I came up through the golf course superintendent ranks.

00:04:59.810 --> 00:05:01.425
I was fortunate.

00:05:01.425 --> 00:05:05.346
I went to Penn State, got a four-year degree in turfgrass science, which is still interesting.

00:05:05.346 --> 00:05:12.771
Most of my friends outside of the industry are blown away that you can go to a college to learn how to grow grass for a living.

00:05:12.771 --> 00:05:15.035
And then was blessed.

00:05:15.035 --> 00:05:20.009
You know, the Penn State network is kind of a saying is that the sun never sets on a Penn State graduate.

00:05:20.009 --> 00:05:28.851
You know, turfgrass graduate because we're all over the world and you know the networking that you get and exposure at that stage in my career really influenced me.

00:05:28.851 --> 00:05:29.613
I was fortunate.

00:05:30.341 --> 00:05:34.634
Um, my first internship was at Marion golf club, uh, 2006.

00:05:34.634 --> 00:05:56.430
And it was, uh, I mean a shell shot going from Burwick golf club, you know rural Pennsylvania, to the bright lights of the top five club in the country and it was such a cool experience and I really enjoyed the camaraderie and the people that were involved there and just kind of, you know, worked my out my way through that sort of network of superintendents.

00:05:56.430 --> 00:06:04.302
Was that Southern Hills for for an internship when Tiger Woods won the PGA championship, so that was.

00:06:04.302 --> 00:06:05.307
That was pretty cool.

00:06:05.307 --> 00:06:08.240
And then was that Mirafield Village the following year.

00:06:10.266 --> 00:06:11.209
So you were there.

00:06:11.209 --> 00:06:13.668
How close were you to proximity?

00:06:13.668 --> 00:06:15.225
Tell me about that.

00:06:15.225 --> 00:06:18.050
That energy must have been electric.

00:06:20.761 --> 00:06:30.574
Well, outside of a whiteout at Penn State, I don't think you could get anything closer to just the intensity that people had and the excitement around Tiger Woods.

00:06:30.574 --> 00:06:39.055
I mean, especially as somebody who grew up Sundays watching Tiger win tournaments and this is the person you sort of idolize as a sports hero.

00:06:39.055 --> 00:06:41.646
And yeah, how close was I.

00:06:41.646 --> 00:06:45.632
I mean I got a picture taken with him after he won the championship, so it was pretty special.

00:06:45.632 --> 00:06:46.454
I mean I got a picture taken with him after he won the championship.

00:06:46.396 --> 00:06:46.992
So it was pretty, pretty special.

00:06:46.992 --> 00:06:55.286
Oh snap, were you in viewing distance, watching it happen live, Like where were you on the course?

00:06:57.927 --> 00:07:07.874
So it was fascinating and I remember this, he was only like a stroke or two above the second place.

00:07:07.874 --> 00:07:22.228
And so as he teed off the 18th, we had already been kind of instructed hey, there's a chance that there's going to be a three-hole playoff here, so we need to go and prep those holes 16, 17, and then kind of follow in behind as they complete 18.

00:07:22.228 --> 00:07:25.519
Make sure the bunkers are raked, make sure they're clean, make sure there's no obstructions on the complete 18,.

00:07:25.519 --> 00:07:28.850
You know, make sure the bunkers are raked, make sure they're clean, make sure you know there's no obstructions on the teas, fairways, greens.

00:07:28.850 --> 00:07:30.163
You know, make sure everything's clean.

00:07:30.904 --> 00:07:33.271
And so I was at the 17th hole.

00:07:33.271 --> 00:07:42.526
He had he'd already teed off, he was going up to the, he was on his fairway second shot and basically, you know, his next shot landed on the green.

00:07:42.526 --> 00:07:47.565
So it's like Tiger Woods is a four-putton on the 18th green at that time to lose a major championship.

00:07:47.565 --> 00:07:59.079
So I was sprinting when I had the athletic prowess years ago to be able to sprint from the 17th all the way up to the 18th to watch him drop and win the championship.

00:07:59.641 --> 00:08:07.365
So it was just a lot of adrenaline and, listen, we were putting some pretty crazy hours in, I mean, and it was a hot summer in Oklahoma.

00:08:07.365 --> 00:08:13.812
I mean we had record breaking heat, a hundred degrees that week and we were working a hundred 120 hours.

00:08:13.812 --> 00:08:18.687
I mean sun up, sun down, beyond you know when the sun was down to kind of prep for the tournament.

00:08:18.687 --> 00:08:25.288
So you know, when you're around that environment you know it's kind of crazy to think back like man, I can't believe we worked 120 hours in a week.

00:08:25.288 --> 00:08:42.583
But the adrenaline and excitement of putting together a product for the world's best golfers is, you know, if you really love golf which that's, that's how I got into the history, because I just love golf um, I'm sort of a golf freak, a nerd, but um, that stuff doesn't really bother you too much because it's all adrenaline.

00:08:42.845 --> 00:08:46.572
Yeah, no, that is that is cool.

00:08:46.572 --> 00:08:50.331
And then what got you to Tyler Bloom Consulting?

00:08:50.331 --> 00:08:50.801
What?

00:08:50.801 --> 00:08:53.931
What was that progression and trajectory?

00:08:56.322 --> 00:08:56.964
Well it's.

00:08:56.964 --> 00:09:03.471
It's interesting I I always gravitated when I was kind of coming up through the ranks.

00:09:03.471 --> 00:09:30.649
I was surrounded by great people and great leaders, great teammates who are now accomplished executives, superintendents, club managers, golf professionals, you know throughout the country and really over in the world of golf, and I just always appreciated the idea of team development, different personalities that I was exposed to and around, was heavily involved in a lot of our internship programs and developing them.

00:09:30.649 --> 00:10:19.760
Coming up through and when I was a superintendent, probably like most of your viewers, grappled with struggles of the workforce and trying to recruit, retain, develop mid-managers, seasonal help, and I had a guidance counselor come to my office this is probably back 2015, 2016 to talk to me about a youth apprenticeship program and I was just fascinated with the idea that, hey, similar to my background at places like Oakmont, muirfield, you know, marion where I was an intern, there's a program for maybe people who aren't exposed to the club industry or golf industry, but this is a way to kind of get them in into the industry and develop them, and so over the course of three, four years, I just really got passionate around the idea of mentorship and developing kind of from within and getting people exposed to the golf industry.

00:10:19.760 --> 00:10:31.982
Cause what I see in the golf industry and what I know about it you know it's created a lifestyle for me and friendships that you know and memories that probably not a lot of people have been exposed to in their life.

00:10:31.982 --> 00:10:35.072
And so I looked at that as an opportunity to develop and mentor people.

00:10:35.072 --> 00:10:44.788
And I started getting calls from clubs you know locally in the Baltimore region as it relates to how are we recruiting and developing and building this sort of apprenticeship internship model.

00:10:45.609 --> 00:10:47.532
And the light bulb went off my head.

00:10:47.532 --> 00:10:54.772
I had an agronomic consultant come in with me to tour the golf course and he had said to me have you ever thought of starting a recruiting agency?

00:10:54.772 --> 00:10:58.346
And I said you know, not really.

00:10:58.346 --> 00:11:00.591
And he says, well, I think you should do some research.

00:11:00.591 --> 00:11:13.903
And I was familiar with some of the normal traditional executive search firms Copland and Keebler Dennehy Group, familiar with the kind of work that they did as a candidate and just an industry professional.

00:11:13.903 --> 00:11:22.591
And so I thought, well, I'm not sure I necessarily want to create a business that's competing or an executive search firm, but I'm interested in helping this.

00:11:22.591 --> 00:11:25.389
And honestly, it just was a leap of faith.

00:11:25.389 --> 00:11:28.062
Certain things kind of lined up.

00:11:28.102 --> 00:11:44.773
The pandemic made me kind of take the leap, because my wife lost her job, we had our second kid coming in Sienna, and it was like if there's ever a time to make a change in our careers and kind of reset our trajectory, now's the time.

00:11:44.773 --> 00:11:47.385
And I'm an entrepreneurial guy.

00:11:47.385 --> 00:11:57.847
I've always kind of had that sort of spirit about me and I just started seeing things that other people were doing outside of their, outside of the industry that I was like, why can't I do that?

00:11:57.847 --> 00:12:00.756
So I jumped into it in June 2020.

00:12:00.756 --> 00:12:09.466
And what started as really kind of an idea around workforce development and getting people into the industry, you know, fast track.

00:12:09.546 --> 00:12:23.484
Four years later, we're doing executive search, we're doing organizational consulting, we're doing business consulting, we're doing marketing, and it's evolved in such an organic way that I never, ever dreamed of, but sometimes being first in your space.

00:12:23.484 --> 00:12:30.815
You know, specifically on the agronomy side, it's not really well known that there's talent acquisition, recruitment services for it.

00:12:30.815 --> 00:12:36.059
It just kind of was hitting the market at the right time, when the pain was the highest, you know, especially during COVID.

00:12:36.059 --> 00:12:42.712
So that's probably the simplest way of how it came to be, simplest way of how how it came, came, came to be.

00:12:42.712 --> 00:12:50.201
But it certainly has come from, uh, working with great people and surrounding myself with great people, like I've kind of feel, like I've done throughout my entire career.

00:12:50.602 --> 00:12:53.028
Yeah, yeah, what's what?

00:12:53.028 --> 00:12:56.260
So I just love it, cause it's so niche.

00:12:56.260 --> 00:12:57.943
It's just like a niche thing.

00:12:57.943 --> 00:13:00.308
Like it, craig, I, and I love it.

00:13:00.308 --> 00:13:01.110
I love it.

00:13:01.110 --> 00:13:06.120
Um, who like?

00:13:06.120 --> 00:13:06.561
So?

00:13:06.561 --> 00:13:14.225
Who would you say like who's like your target club, like what's like your, and it's probably going to say it's it's changes a little bit, but like who's like your target club?

00:13:14.225 --> 00:13:16.772
Or who do you see yourself working with the most?

00:13:16.772 --> 00:13:17.763
And like who are you helping?

00:13:17.763 --> 00:13:18.245
Like what's?

00:13:18.245 --> 00:13:19.408
What do you think is the?

00:13:21.301 --> 00:13:22.041
well, it's interesting.

00:13:22.041 --> 00:13:25.844
So one of my mentors is a guy by the name of Rory Vaden and his consulting group.

00:13:25.844 --> 00:13:27.225
It's called Brand Builders Group.

00:13:27.225 --> 00:13:29.605
They have a saying called serve the person you once were.

00:13:29.605 --> 00:13:35.090
And when you think about targeting your primary client, like, who's our audience?

00:13:35.090 --> 00:13:38.072
It's golf course superintendents and it's people that are.

00:13:38.072 --> 00:13:41.933
That's one piece is.

00:13:41.933 --> 00:13:48.337
It's people who are fanatics about golf and want to have great golf conditions, great golfer experiences.

00:13:48.337 --> 00:13:54.832
So that opens up the floodgates to a variety of different people beyond just clubs.

00:13:54.832 --> 00:13:59.692
That's also service providers who want to support the game of golf and support golf course superintendents.

00:13:59.692 --> 00:14:06.399
That's people that are startup owners of building and owners that that have golf courses Right.

00:14:06.399 --> 00:14:23.105
So it's it's kind of interesting how I'm not sure I'd put it into one box, but to me those two criteria is like number one we serve the golf course superintendents profession and trying to grow um awareness around what golf course superintendents do and and the careers of superintendents.

00:14:23.105 --> 00:14:30.811
And then also you, you know the people that really are fanatics about golf course, golf courses conditioning and golfer experiences.

00:14:30.811 --> 00:14:34.245
So that those are kind of two key criteria for us.

00:14:35.148 --> 00:14:37.572
Um, I don't know if we would, we'd sit.

00:14:37.572 --> 00:14:48.563
I mean, we primarily work with private clubs, yeah, but, um, you know, it seems it's, it's kind of morphed, it's not just I wouldn't say that we just settle into the private club world.

00:14:48.563 --> 00:14:49.304
I mean, we just got to.

00:14:49.304 --> 00:14:55.429
We just picked up a couple searches with with a technology company that serves golf course superintendents, Right.

00:14:55.429 --> 00:14:59.634
So there's sometimes these offshoot, uh sort of opportunities that come by.

00:14:59.634 --> 00:15:04.619
A few years ago, actually, when I started, uh, never, ever, ever thought this would happen.

00:15:04.619 --> 00:15:04.658
I.

00:15:04.658 --> 00:15:26.547
I got a call from central park conservancy up in central in new york, yeah, and they were looking for a turf manager, uh, for the grounds at central park and so we recruited in that project and that opened up a whole different sector, you know, businesses and parks and recreation that I never, you know, never, ever would have thought of, that's talk.

00:15:26.567 --> 00:15:29.812
to talk about even getting nichier, that's a, that's bonkers.

00:15:29.812 --> 00:15:33.807
Do you have any like tips for people getting into the agronomy space?

00:15:34.087 --> 00:15:44.073
Well, it's interesting, like I think, um most people that I have interacted with beyond just the agronomy side have kind of fell into it.

00:15:44.073 --> 00:15:49.243
It wasn't like they, it wasn't like they were 15 years old and said I love grass.

00:15:50.225 --> 00:15:55.405
I love grass and I want to go to Penn state, I want to go to Rutgers, I want to go to, you know, a major university to study grass.

00:15:55.405 --> 00:16:15.370
It comes from people that have been around sports and athletics typically and they did this as a summer job just to kind of pay the bills or get a free membership at their golf course because that's what they wanted to be around, and then realize that maybe the office space and the corporate world wasn't really for them and so this is kind of the arena that they enjoy doing.

00:16:15.370 --> 00:16:18.889
It becomes more of a passion than it is about financials.

00:16:18.889 --> 00:16:33.625
I mean, everybody needs to get paid and compensation is important, but I just find that most people that really gravitate to the agronomy side are extremely passionate about being around the game of golf and kind of seeing nature's work and being outside with their hands.

00:16:34.168 --> 00:16:35.751
Yeah, so what?

00:16:35.751 --> 00:16:38.900
What do you see as people looking to?

00:16:38.900 --> 00:16:43.452
You know, maybe get some of these really great agronomy positions.

00:16:43.452 --> 00:16:46.160
What are, what are the steps to doing that?

00:16:47.624 --> 00:16:49.609
Yeah, I mean I can look back at my career.

00:16:49.609 --> 00:16:57.284
It really starts foundationally with, with, with good education in some capacity, whether that's a certificate, whether it's a two-year degree or four-year degree.

00:16:57.284 --> 00:17:06.605
We've definitely seen a change in the requirements for the education piece, especially at the assistant manager level and kind of your entrance point into the club or golf industry.

00:17:06.846 --> 00:17:07.469
Dumb question.

00:17:07.469 --> 00:17:10.424
Sorry, do me an interrupt, but like so.

00:17:10.424 --> 00:17:18.722
Is formal education a necessity or could a lot of it be like hands-on, like, is it the type of?

00:17:18.722 --> 00:17:34.603
Is it like doctoral I don't know if that's the proper way to phrase it, but is it like doctor stat, like you have to like do it there, or like, can this be like learned more hands-on, or is it like a mixture of both and like, what is the difference between, like a certificate, a two year and a four year?

00:17:34.603 --> 00:17:43.467
And you know, does somebody who's been hands-on, you know for years, can they out, surpass the four year person?

00:17:44.970 --> 00:17:51.509
It's like the biggest paradox because you have you have some people that are on one side of the fence and others that are on the other.

00:17:51.509 --> 00:18:48.119
So, like I see probably things that more of a global version in in my professional opinion, some level of education to me and I think it's probably industry credo is that it shows a level of commitment to advancing yourself professionally, personally, and you've made a discerning the performance of that turf and that grass that have no formal education and have a very tradesy type background, hands on, yeah.

00:18:48.119 --> 00:18:48.921
So I think I think it just depends on.

00:18:48.921 --> 00:18:50.663
I think it just depends on the current employer and what they need specifically.

00:18:50.663 --> 00:19:04.980
And sometimes that two year, four year degree is not necessarily a driving factor when you just need somebody that has an eye for detail, has a work ethic, to be able to be up at 5 am, sometimes being there till 5, 6 pm, and just and just has that sort of green thumb about them.

00:19:04.980 --> 00:19:25.471
But I think, if I'm looking as an industry best practice and best trends, I think yeah, when you look at senior management roles and if your goal is to climb the career ladder to earn more money, then I definitely think there needs to be some coincided or cohesiveness with education, difference between a certificate versus an associate.

00:19:26.054 --> 00:19:40.865
It's interesting we find a lot of job seekers that may have an associate's or bachelor's in business sports management, that love the golf industry but don't really want to put the time into a four-year degree or two-year degree, and so they may do some online certificate training.

00:19:40.865 --> 00:19:45.074
Penn State offers, you know, 15 credit basic certificate program.

00:19:45.074 --> 00:19:49.019
Rutgers has a fast track to your winter school program, right.

00:19:49.019 --> 00:19:56.301
So a lot of times you'll see candidates that want to climb the ladder go through those sort of programs and listen.

00:19:56.382 --> 00:19:58.690
For me personally, it's all about the mentorship.

00:19:58.690 --> 00:20:07.912
If you work for a great mentor and a recognized superintendent, that's going to carry more weight than looking if you have a two-year, four-year degree.

00:20:07.912 --> 00:20:14.089
So I've noticed somebody that can develop a team knows how to grow grass throughout the year.

00:20:14.089 --> 00:20:18.685
One of my dear friends says if you can grow grass on pavement, you won't get fired by any club.

00:20:18.685 --> 00:20:27.902
I'm not sure I entirely agree with that, because I do think there's some diplomacy, political skills, leadership, communication skills that are required.

00:20:27.902 --> 00:20:32.223
But yeah, if you can grow grass on pavement, you're going to be pretty successful in this industry.

00:20:32.223 --> 00:20:33.067
That's funny.

00:20:33.067 --> 00:20:34.131
That's really funny.

00:20:34.854 --> 00:20:41.728
That's really fun, so steps, yeah, I mean you asked like specifically what steps number one like you you've got to.

00:20:41.728 --> 00:20:49.429
You've got to really kind of align yourself with the right network of superintendents, be no different than a chef or a golf pro.

00:20:49.429 --> 00:20:53.751
You've got to work for somebody that has a history of developing and mentoring people.

00:20:53.751 --> 00:20:59.066
My perspective is it doesn't necessarily have to be a top 100 level club.

00:20:59.066 --> 00:21:10.492
It can be a really great local club in your area that has a network of people and support group that can help somebody kind of move on from going from level one to level two, level three.

00:21:10.492 --> 00:21:13.107
That to me, is pretty paramount.

00:21:14.220 --> 00:21:29.708
Success also to me in terms of moving up the career ladder is, you know, like anything else, this is a challenging industry when it comes to hours, commitment and you've got to be extremely dedicated.

00:21:29.708 --> 00:21:38.872
This is not an industry I don't care what discipline or sector you're in that a 40-hour workweek is going to land you into the promised land of higher salary, higher responsibilities.

00:21:38.872 --> 00:21:42.623
That's just not the nature of this job and it's getting more and more demanding.

00:21:42.623 --> 00:21:49.554
So you have to have a clear passion for this line of work or it'll get to you.

00:21:49.554 --> 00:21:53.248
You know, in summer times you're in the heat, you're outside sweating.

00:21:53.248 --> 00:22:02.541
You might not have all the resources or support systems to produce great conditions, and what kind of gets people through that is their, their passion for what they do.

00:22:04.002 --> 00:22:11.089
What positions do you hire for and what are the positions that a club would hire for?

00:22:11.089 --> 00:22:13.352
So, like you know, so I I'm.

00:22:13.352 --> 00:22:17.736
I'm coming from the perspective of, like you know, I don't really know the agronomy side.

00:22:17.736 --> 00:22:19.596
I don't know all the positions there too.

00:22:19.596 --> 00:22:28.289
So I'm coming from a point of you know, being like you know, because I am, but like, so, like, what are the positions of the agronomy scale?

00:22:29.451 --> 00:22:38.554
yeah, so so typically like, let's start at the at the head position director of agronomy or golf course superintendent, and then your next level down would be your senior assistant.

00:22:39.415 --> 00:22:56.720
I I kind of have gone back to more of a hierarchy, um, traditional hierarchy, because it's clear, people know where they stand, versus some people tried to elevate roles that were they're calling them assistant superintendents when they're an intern or they're calling them a core superintendent when they're really like a senior assistant.

00:22:56.859 --> 00:23:24.996
So I think senior assistant, second assistant assistant in training, right, senior assistant, second assistant assistant in training, right, and then I think you're looking at sort of like an intern, apprentice, maybe a crew foreman level, and then your your typical, you know, groundskeepers Now there's some clubs that have specialties and irrigation technician, a spray technician, you know I've I've seen everything from like a wildlife habitat Audubon, like environmental technician type position, you know.

00:23:24.996 --> 00:23:31.920
But but the core, the core is really that superintendent, senior assistant, yeah, um, and then an equipment manager.

00:23:31.920 --> 00:23:33.506
You know sometimes people forget that.

00:23:33.506 --> 00:23:43.430
You know there are really well, highly qualified specialized equipment technicians that are maintaining four or five million dollar fleets, if not more, um, of specialized equipment.

00:23:43.430 --> 00:23:52.403
So it's, it's fascinating that you know most people don't think about on the agronomy side, like all those different pathways do you like grass?

00:23:52.523 --> 00:23:53.205
do you like golf?

00:23:53.205 --> 00:23:54.387
Do you like fixing things?

00:23:54.387 --> 00:23:56.112
Do we have the job for you?

00:23:56.112 --> 00:23:57.840
Do you like expensive equipment?

00:23:59.421 --> 00:24:00.201
well and what's.

00:24:00.201 --> 00:24:14.469
And so it's interesting, as we think about the evolution of the workforce and, let's say, the career trajectory, with the shortage in talent in technology pieces, because most clubs now operate under data and they want more precision based decision making.

00:24:14.469 --> 00:24:46.969
And so I think, as you look at the skills moving forward to be successful, I do thinking having some of that technology support, data driven innovation kind of skill sets, I think is going to be a pretty important piece, you know, in the job market moving forward.

00:24:49.121 --> 00:24:51.365
Yeah, what are?

00:24:51.365 --> 00:24:54.853
What are some like salary ranges for those positions?

00:24:56.760 --> 00:24:59.909
Well, and I'm, and I'm sure, that that's across the board.

00:24:59.969 --> 00:25:02.347
I'm sure that you know and, and you know you can say loosely, you know, whatever.

00:25:02.347 --> 00:25:04.461
But cause, I'm sure that you know, uh, and, and you know you can say loosely, you know whatever.

00:25:04.461 --> 00:25:08.596
But I'm sure every club, every state, every county, every place is different.

00:25:08.675 --> 00:25:11.124
But yeah, you know it's interesting.

00:25:11.124 --> 00:25:18.335
We just did a national study that'll be released here in a couple, in a couple weeks, and 77 of working americans don't know that.

00:25:18.335 --> 00:25:44.607
You can make over a hundred thousand dollars in the agronomy sector and and that's become, from my observation, a pretty consistent standard at the senior management not just the superintendent but the senior assistant role that it's not uncommon now that somebody could be making $100,000 as an assistant with a two-year, four-year degree, and we've seen that range of director positions anywhere all the way up to.

00:25:44.607 --> 00:25:47.875
I've filled a position that paid over $600,000.

00:25:47.875 --> 00:25:51.666
So it's pretty crazy.

00:25:52.188 --> 00:25:57.039
The way the world is working right now, specifically in this industry, is compensation.

00:25:57.039 --> 00:26:04.442
But traditionally, I think when you look at an assistant role, somebody coming out of college, they're probably making somewhere between 60, 70,000.

00:26:04.442 --> 00:26:08.271
In some locations of the country 75 plus housing.

00:26:08.271 --> 00:26:13.365
You know you're seeing a lot of that being offered at a lot of Metro markets, whether it's New York, la, west Palm beach.

00:26:13.365 --> 00:26:20.520
It's almost it's crazy to think, but it's almost like a necessity or requirement for employment now to offer housing.

00:26:21.142 --> 00:26:21.343
Yeah.

00:26:22.064 --> 00:26:25.632
Yeah, mechanics, I mean 100,000.

00:26:25.632 --> 00:26:38.548
I mean I personally wouldn't take on an equipment manager search if it was paying anything less than 90,000, because I just think for that level of skilled position that's what you're going to pay in another industry for a qualified mechanic.

00:26:39.319 --> 00:26:48.894
Well, and if you're managing a fleet, even if it's a million dollar fleet, I feel like paying 10% is not crazy to keep it maintained.

00:26:50.859 --> 00:27:04.955
You would think that, but I think probably similar to the other sectors is that there has been a big awareness around paying people for what they're worth, because you're going to lose them to other industries if you don't.

00:27:06.144 --> 00:27:06.920
You have the board members.

00:27:06.920 --> 00:27:09.568
Well, I fixed my John Deere by myself.

00:27:09.568 --> 00:27:13.269
Well, I ain't going to fit in to pay this hooligan.

00:27:13.269 --> 00:27:16.904
I don't know why I gave him that accent.

00:27:19.651 --> 00:27:20.212
It's true, though.

00:27:20.212 --> 00:27:25.001
It's true, though that's, you know, again, that's.

00:27:25.001 --> 00:27:29.648
That's sometimes part of the um, that's part of the bias and challenges I think this industry has is that you have people that you know.

00:27:29.648 --> 00:27:38.481
We'll say things like well, my yard at home doesn't look like this, you know, why are we Brown here and we're spending all this money?

00:27:38.481 --> 00:27:38.561
Why?

00:27:38.561 --> 00:27:39.785
Why is our golf course, you know, looking like this?

00:27:39.785 --> 00:27:48.307
Because you've got these armchair agronomists that think that they know better than their superintendent, who's professionally trained, educated, um, you know.

00:27:48.307 --> 00:27:51.519
So that's a challenge in the in the agronomy side.

00:27:51.579 --> 00:27:54.628
I think there's also the public perception of the Bill Murray caddy shack.

00:27:54.628 --> 00:27:57.930
You know is is what people think of when they think.

00:27:57.930 --> 00:28:15.820
For a long time thought of golf course super intent to sort of be in this rag tag, unprofessional, unkept person, and now you've got these people that are managing 20, 30, 100 million dollar projects along with that asset on their golf course, you know.

00:28:15.820 --> 00:28:33.385
So those skill sets and professionalism within the position has really elevated and I think it's really been brought out through COVID with the awareness around golf and how much impact and people are using golf courses and, you know, view the sport and view the and view this as not just.

00:28:33.385 --> 00:28:43.126
I just think there's a more elevated perspective of the golf industry and what golf course superintendents do.

00:28:43.126 --> 00:28:46.160
There's more respect than I think when I came up in the industry.

00:28:46.160 --> 00:28:55.089
There's more awareness around it as being a profession than just, you know, an average job down the street that any Joe Schmo could cut the grass.

00:28:55.711 --> 00:29:07.041
Yeah, when you're looking at the higher levels the assistant, the, you know, director, the, the, the assistant, the director, the main, super what are you say?

00:29:07.041 --> 00:29:17.096
Is there like a couple or maybe one, two, three qualities that like the top candidates, the top people who get the positions like that they have?

00:29:17.096 --> 00:29:18.832
Is there a common theme, a common thread?

00:29:19.307 --> 00:29:25.131
Yeah, Well, we talked about passion being certainly.

00:29:25.131 --> 00:29:41.196
One of those things I think you're seeing more of a morph into I kind of call it like a strategic partner is that they're looking at the golf course as a central business asset or unit within the overall context of a club.

00:29:41.196 --> 00:29:45.200
So I think having that sort of business acumen- is really important.

00:29:45.259 --> 00:29:53.711
And by that are you meaning like they're kind of coming ready and expecting or willing to put in a plan going, okay, here's where it's at, here's where it's going to be.

00:29:53.711 --> 00:29:58.303
We're going to have to you know, we already have X amount of deferred maintenance like looking at stuff.

00:29:58.303 --> 00:30:07.468
Do you mean like looking at it from that point of view and being like, okay, here's where we're at.

00:30:07.488 --> 00:30:26.861
Here's what we need, not just like, okay, we're going to be good for another year, okay, yeah, there's, there's much more of a analytical view, you know, with tracking, performance of green speeds, firmness, moisture, water conservation, right, and so having a person that takes that sort of ownership, you know, like it's theirs, as, I think, a really critical skill I think.

00:30:26.861 --> 00:30:31.643
I think you see, you've seen as, as you see with talking with other people in this industry, clubs are changing rapidly in terms of member expectations.

00:30:31.643 --> 00:30:48.832
So having somebody that has a global perspective, that they're part of a team, you know, within the club, I think, is obviously an attractive trait that every general manager, every club president, every every board's looking for you and their next leader in the agronomy area man, they've got to be observational.

00:30:48.832 --> 00:30:56.369
I hinted on that earlier is that you have to know your property like it's your own kid.

00:30:56.369 --> 00:31:24.964
You know, I always used to joke like I had 18 kids and I knew at different points of the year what they needed, why they needed it, what their pain points were, and you have to nurture and care for that and that requires a significant amount of dedication, and you've also got to be able to inspire people to have that same passion and attention to detail within your team and I think most clubs and committees we've worked with on superintendent searches.

00:31:25.705 --> 00:31:28.929
The issues are never really this catastrophic turf loss.

00:31:28.929 --> 00:31:37.796
Right, it's not because greens are dead, it's not because of agronomic related issues, it's typically low hanging fruit.

00:31:37.796 --> 00:31:43.181
T markers aren't set properly, pin positions aren't set properly.

00:31:43.181 --> 00:31:44.962
You know there's trash on the golf course.

00:31:44.962 --> 00:31:50.086
The fine details on the peripherals of the golf course are unkept.

00:31:50.086 --> 00:31:54.150
It's those things that the average golfer drives by every day and gets annoyed with.

00:31:54.150 --> 00:32:01.595
That, really, I think, separates the good from great superintenses and the teams that have that sort of high attention to detail.

00:32:01.935 --> 00:32:05.057
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:32:09.880 --> 00:32:10.381
I get that 100.

00:32:10.381 --> 00:32:10.842
That's it's.

00:32:10.842 --> 00:32:11.423
It's fascinating.

00:32:11.423 --> 00:32:25.942
I mean I, when I first started doing superintendent searches, um, I was waiting for this like big aha moment, when you go tour a golf course with the committee to say, oh man, you know, number five, green is, is is in pretty rough shape.

00:32:25.942 --> 00:32:27.346
That's why they made the decision.

00:32:27.346 --> 00:32:42.307
And you kind of go through the, through this, got these golf course tours with the committees and I like to do that because I think it's important to really kind of listen and observe what they're, what they're observing as their pain points, so you can kind of delineate what's going to be important in the skills and experiences that next person has.

00:32:42.307 --> 00:32:57.666
And again, the majority of what I see, um, isn't this overwhelming one or two big things, it's all the little details that just like nick at people every single day yeah, huh.

00:32:59.009 --> 00:33:04.865
And then do you have like a third thing oh sorry oh no, no, no, it was good, it was my, my, my like brain.

00:33:04.865 --> 00:33:05.446
You said one, two.

00:33:05.446 --> 00:33:15.414
I was like oh, let's, let's get, like, let's squeeze one more, squeeze one more um, I mean they've got to have with all.

00:33:15.454 --> 00:33:28.453
We just kind of led into that but they got to have a pretty high iq on golf, meaning they need to understand how golf course maintenance synergizes with day-to-day member experiences and how those two pieces play into each other.

00:33:28.453 --> 00:33:36.390
So somebody that understands the game of golf, understands course setup, understands what their members specifically are looking for.

00:33:36.390 --> 00:33:45.011
You know, sometimes you can go into places that say they want to have us open type conditions on a on a beer budget and that's not realistic, you know.

00:33:45.011 --> 00:33:56.019
So somebody that's practical, pragmatic about how they're going to game plan and how they're going to enforce day-to-day standards, that coincides with what that membership um skillset is.

00:33:56.239 --> 00:34:04.630
You know there are some facilities that you may have majority of membership as single digit handicaps, but I would say 95% of the country that's not the case.

00:34:04.630 --> 00:34:20.081
Most, most clubs have a average membership uh gen of maybe 15 to 15 to 20 and you can you could really turn people off if the golf course is presented day-to-day too firm, too fast, um, too difficult for your average player.

00:34:20.081 --> 00:34:22.775
You know you've got to continue to encourage people to get into the game.

00:34:22.775 --> 00:34:30.893
So a superintendent has to be cognizant of of what their work does to the enjoyment of golf for your average player as well as that low handicapper.

00:34:31.481 --> 00:34:33.869
Yeah, it goes back to what we were saying too.

00:34:33.869 --> 00:34:38.128
It's understanding the role, the goal of everything.

00:34:38.128 --> 00:34:40.353
And what are they talking about in the boardroom?

00:34:40.353 --> 00:34:49.601
It's like the same thing, understanding what's being said, taking that all in, like what's the goal of the club, like what's, what else are they working on besides?

00:34:49.601 --> 00:34:50.945
Just also just the golf stuff.

00:34:50.945 --> 00:34:55.423
But like what's going on in the clubhouse, like what's what's the whole vibe been?

00:34:56.525 --> 00:35:07.333
one other thing too it's funny, as we were just kind of workshopping through this a little bit is you also need a superintendent who's not afraid to put their foot down and say no.

00:35:07.333 --> 00:35:18.132
And what I mean by that is, you know you get into, let's say, july in the summer in the mid Atlantic, where it's 90 degrees to a hundred degrees, with 70, 80, 90% humidity.

00:35:18.132 --> 00:35:21.405
Yeah, at some point you are growing a living, breathing.

00:35:21.405 --> 00:35:35.646
You know, plant can't sustain green speed, conditions and firmness when, again, you don't have the resources, the staff, the budgets to support the, the infrastructure to support that consistency day in, day out.

00:35:36.407 --> 00:35:50.885
Um, it's no different than a human being like if you're, if you're expecting to perform like a world-class athlete but you're eating mcdonald's and you're expecting to perform like a world-class athlete but you're eating McDonald's and you're not exercising every day, probably not going to sustain, you know, world-class performance at all.

00:35:50.885 --> 00:35:51.809
You know what I mean.

00:35:51.809 --> 00:36:04.590
So you need to have a superintendent that can communicate and not be afraid to say no but be open to finding solutions, um, and communicate those solutions and reasons why.

00:36:04.590 --> 00:36:08.510
You know certain things go on on a golf course, so members want to be communicated to.

00:36:08.510 --> 00:36:11.684
I mean that that's another key thing so is that how you see people?

00:36:11.744 --> 00:36:14.371
I don't want to say like getting in trouble, but like you know.

00:36:14.371 --> 00:36:19.070
But if like, is this, is that where you see maybe people getting you know it?

00:36:19.070 --> 00:36:21.721
Uh, is they, you know, the, the club?

00:36:21.721 --> 00:36:25.472
Oh, we want x, y and z and just, and it's like a new person coming in.

00:36:25.472 --> 00:36:27.608
They go, oh, I could give you that.

00:36:27.608 --> 00:36:32.028
And then they get there and realize like, oh, but like they almost knew they couldn't.

00:36:32.028 --> 00:36:39.222
But they're, oh, maybe I, you know, it's like the guy or the girl, like I'm going to change them, like I'm going to make them.

00:36:39.222 --> 00:36:39.922
Let you know what I mean.

00:36:39.922 --> 00:36:41.365
So it's like, oh, no, I'm going to make this.

00:36:41.365 --> 00:36:42.907
And then they realize they can't do it.

00:36:42.907 --> 00:36:47.094
And they're like, oh crap, and now the expectation was already there, and then it's not being met.

00:36:47.094 --> 00:36:48.476
So is that kind of what you're talking about?

00:36:48.476 --> 00:36:49.777
Can people get into trouble that way too?

00:36:49.777 --> 00:36:58.255
So, kind of like going back to what you said about, no, it's like putting your foot down, going like, okay, listen, you want that I can come in.

00:37:10.420 --> 00:37:12.576
I need and with the budget, like, is that, is that kind of what you're spoiling down to is just communication and just not.

00:37:12.576 --> 00:37:17.632
Yeah, one of my greatest meant one of my greatest mentors was was my greens chairman, um, or was a former greens chairman, and then he had always told me your biggest challenge is going to be managing expectations.

00:37:17.632 --> 00:37:20.434
Don't over promise and under deliver.

00:37:20.434 --> 00:37:22.356
Yeah, right, um.

00:37:22.356 --> 00:37:31.532
So I think being able to manage that and be pragmatic about what's real and not, and not be afraid to voice your opinion, and you need to communicate that.

00:37:31.532 --> 00:37:31.932
And if you.

00:37:31.932 --> 00:37:33.483
And the other thing too, is if you get.

00:37:33.523 --> 00:37:43.242
What I'm finding, interestingly enough, is if people let's say they're having a difficult summer and listen, every superintendent at some point in their career has lost grass.

00:37:43.242 --> 00:37:47.992
So if any club in America thinks that that's not realistic, they're foolish.

00:37:47.992 --> 00:38:07.137
But I think that being able to ask for help and be able to communicate when things are going wrong, I think is an equally important skill set, because you're going to have challenges right, whether it's labor, whether it's, you know, downtimes with the economy.

00:38:07.137 --> 00:38:08.945
Maybe membership numbers aren't where they're at.

00:38:08.945 --> 00:38:12.186
You didn't invest into some of the drainage, you didn't invest in the irrigation.

00:38:12.347 --> 00:38:23.927
Whatever the case may be, you're going to be dealing with some sort of limitations at some point and you can't be afraid to expose yourself and tell people that, hey, here's what we did, what we didn't do, here's what we need to do.

00:38:23.927 --> 00:38:30.195
But damn sure you better do what you say you're going to do, because it's accountability and people want that.

00:38:30.195 --> 00:38:35.869
They don't want to be told fluff, oh, we'll do this, we'll do this, and 30, 60, 90 days later nothing's been done.

00:38:35.869 --> 00:38:49.697
So you can't be afraid to ask for help, and I think that's one really cool thing about this industry is the power of the networking side of it that most people, even though we're competing businesses all want to see each other succeed.

00:38:49.717 --> 00:38:52.443
Yeah, well, because when something happens, you know it's it's.

00:38:52.443 --> 00:38:57.927
It's such a niche, small industry that when something like when good happens, it's good for everybody.

00:38:57.927 --> 00:39:01.766
It's like, you know, people uh say like the same with like magic, like, oh, what do you think about?

00:39:01.766 --> 00:39:05.291
Like I love a magic's on tv, because then it makes it better for everybody, because then people like are enjoying it.

00:39:05.291 --> 00:39:06.000
So it's like the same with like magic, like oh, what do you think about?

00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:07.260
Like I love a magic's on tv, because then it makes it better for everybody, because then people like are enjoying it.

00:39:07.260 --> 00:39:12.255
So it's like the more people are having a good experience with whatever the product is, the more it helps everybody.

00:39:12.255 --> 00:39:14.885
Uh, so the more clubs that thrive, we all thrive.

00:39:15.568 --> 00:39:18.557
Um yeah, I find too.

00:39:18.557 --> 00:39:24.728
What's interesting and I took it totally for granted coming up through the ranks is the power of the network, right and?

00:39:24.728 --> 00:39:25.398
And there's different circles.

00:39:25.398 --> 00:39:26.333
It's no different coming up through the ranks as the power of the network Right and there's different circles.

00:39:26.333 --> 00:39:32.606
It's no different than college football, right, you got the Nick Saban tree, you got the bill Belichick, you got Dabo sweetie, you got James Franklin.

00:39:32.606 --> 00:39:35.860
I guess you could say that's, that's a, that's also a network tree.

00:39:35.860 --> 00:39:45.432
But I think that that's another key.

00:39:45.432 --> 00:39:57.891
Other superintendents, that's agronomists, academia suppliers, you know it's, it's beyond just the people that are growing grass making sure your superintendent and your club officials have a great network and you're investing into that.

00:39:57.891 --> 00:40:00.963
That's where great ideas come from yeah, no, that's, that's.

00:40:01.224 --> 00:40:07.775
Uh, that's a, it's probably a, a point people wouldn't have thought about as they're hiring and looking.

00:40:07.775 --> 00:40:15.893
It's like, okay, yes, they might be great, they talk all this good stuff, they have amazing recommendations, but what's their network like?

00:40:15.893 --> 00:40:17.356
Who can they pull from?

00:40:17.356 --> 00:40:18.300
Who are they friends with?

00:40:18.300 --> 00:40:21.824
Also, if nobody likes them and they don't have anybody to pull from, that's not good.

00:40:21.824 --> 00:40:25.148
Yeah, I find it interesting and maybe you see this and I haven't have anybody to pull from.

00:40:25.188 --> 00:40:25.648
That's not good.

00:40:25.648 --> 00:40:36.530
Yeah, I find it interesting and maybe you see this and I haven't been exposed enough at the general manager search, although we've done a few of those and a handful of those and golf professional things like that.

00:40:36.530 --> 00:40:43.367
On the agronomy side, it's like committees oftentimes affiliate with clubs that they recently played.

00:40:43.367 --> 00:40:45.414
They go to a member guest event, they see a tournament on the event.

00:40:45.414 --> 00:40:52.746
They go to some, they see a T a tournament on the golf course and they think, well, we'll just go pull the guy from X, y, z club Cause they hosted the U S open.

00:40:52.746 --> 00:40:55.159
Well, that's not always applicable to your facility.

00:40:55.159 --> 00:40:56.284
It's not apples to apples.

00:40:56.646 --> 00:40:59.460
No budgets are different, resources are different personalities.

00:40:59.460 --> 00:41:08.666
Yeah, and I think general managers are getting more savvy about understanding that it's not just as simple as going and pulling the guy.

00:41:08.666 --> 00:41:17.972
Even though they may have come from a great network and a great club, that doesn't mean that they want to be there, so if they're just following a check and you're just kind of talking to them with money.

00:41:17.992 --> 00:41:36.367
It's like, yeah, but if they're not genuinely going to be like you know, I don't know Sometimes it's, you know, is it a really a good fit for both and is that what they're looking for?

00:41:36.367 --> 00:41:38.402
And that's kind of what I've been.

00:41:38.402 --> 00:41:42.746
I just had a chat yesterday, yesterday, with a general manager about that it's.

00:41:42.746 --> 00:41:51.436
You know, they enjoy being hands-on, so they like a certain like they're, they found their type of club.

00:41:51.436 --> 00:41:58.307
It's like they enjoy also doing some of the events because the club's not massive so they can handle it's maybe a hundred person event.

00:41:58.307 --> 00:42:14.802
They enjoy being hands-on, they don't mind and want to pull a table, they enjoy just being in it and just, you know, kind of being a part of it and them going to another club that they would have more people under them or, you know, they wouldn't have to do as much.

00:42:14.802 --> 00:42:16.027
That's not a fit for them.

00:42:16.027 --> 00:42:17.170
So it's the same thing.

00:42:17.170 --> 00:42:21.210
It's it's finding really good fits and like understanding.

00:42:23.121 --> 00:42:34.987
I find it so again fascinating that I joke with a lot of my peers and friends that when I was a superintendent I couldn't get our greens chairman, couldn't get our board to approve you know, some simple little improvements.

00:42:34.987 --> 00:42:42.014
I go to some of the most recognized, reputable facilities in the world and we'll have conversations like this.

00:42:42.014 --> 00:43:16.967
I'm like, well, I'm going to implement what Tyler said and I'm like, how does it work that I go to these places and they accept my feedback and yet go to my own current, previous role.

00:43:16.967 --> 00:43:35.592
I is really be honest about who they are as a company, what their reputation is in the market, because that may impede or also could accelerate a search process, depending on the reputation of that club Sometimes members aren't exposed to that on the reputation of that club, sometimes members aren't exposed to that, they're exposed to just day-to-day things and maybe overlook some of the culture aspects, reputation in the market, how they've treated employees, and I think it's important for us to be really clear on that.

00:43:36.481 --> 00:43:40.730