April 11, 2025

434: PGA to COO: Rick Schultz's Leadership Insights

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00:00 - Journey From PGA Tour to GM

14:02 - Realigning Club Values for Success

19:28 - Building Membership Success in Private Clubs

31:30 - Impacting Lives Through Club Employment

36:35 - Ensuring Effective Club Board Dynamics

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Hey everybody, welcome to the Private Club Radio Show, where we give you the scoop on all things private golf and country clubs, From mastering leadership and management, food and beverage excellence, member engagement secrets, board governance and everything in between, all while keeping it fun and light.

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Whether you're a club veteran just getting your feet wet or somewhere in the middle, you are in the right place.

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I'm your host, Denny Corby.

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Welcome to the show.

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In this episode, I am chatting with Rick Schultz, who is the general manager, COO of Rogue Valley Country Club and all the way from the PGA Tour to the GM's office.

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You know, some people plan their careers, others take opportunities as they come, and Rick has done a little bit of both.

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He started off playing on the Canadian PGA Tour, working his way through some of the best clubs in the country before making the leap to head pro to now general manager, and he is running Rogue Valley Country Club.

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And what a story, what a journey.

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And I'm excited to dive into this episode because we talk about the biggest lessons he learned from life on tour, what made him realize he wanted to run clubs instead of just working in them, and how he navigated from the jump to go from golf operations to full-on club management, and why managing a team is the hardest and most important part of the job.

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It is a fantastic episode and I really enjoy these conversations, hearing how people get to club leadership, club management and, as you know, there's not always just managers and leaders on here.

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There's the whole gambit.

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We have the whole wide spectrum.

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But I love just the unique paths that people take to get to where they're at, and I love seeing how there's a lot of PGA pros who are now making their way to GMs or have been GMs, and I just love that journey.

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I love that story, so I'm super stoked to dive in and for you to hear all about it Before we do.

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Big thanks to some of our show partners Kenneth's member vetting members first, and concert golf partners, as well as myself.

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The Denny Corby experience.

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If you are looking for one of the most fun member memorable event nights your club can have, make sure you check out Denny Corbycom.

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There's excitement, there's mystery.

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Also there's magic, mind reading and comedy.

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It is so much fun, but I am a little bit biased.

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If you want to learn more, head on over to DannyCorbycom.

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Enough about that, though.

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Let's get to this episode.

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Private Club Radio listeners.

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A welcome to the show.

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Rick Schultz, you were on the PGA Tour.

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You were touring.

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You were from PGA.

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Canadian PGA Never made it all the way.

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All the mini tours and all that.

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Really, back then they had just started, sort of the Corn Fairy that secondary, so I forget what it was called.

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Hogan Tour.

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I think at first that had to be cool to be on tour.

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Yeah, it was good.

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It's rough, you know, when you don't play well.

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And yeah, it was good.

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It's rough when you don't play well and you don't make money.

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It's a struggle.

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Living out at Motel 6s and driving from place to place is a lot different than staying at the Ritz.

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It's very true, very true.

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How old were you?

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I was what 22?

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Oh, that's a fun age to be doing it then yeah, yeah, it was fun.

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I mean I met a lot of good people, had a lot of great stories and, and you know I'll never take it back.

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But yeah, Any looking back, any like lessons like you learned from it?

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Was there anything like like looking back now?

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were you like, oh, like you know, this helped me or like that helped me, I don't know just any like lessons from doing that whole thing I think just the whole growing up and living on your own, living in hotel room, I mean, you know, I can't imagine my son's 27 now and I'm thinking gosh, gosh, man, if I told them hey, see you later.

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You're going to go travel across the United States and in Canada and be gone for 14 weeks.

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You know that's kind of crazy.

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So, but again, just you know, I've been in every state in the union, so it's great.

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Been all the way through Canada, spent some time in Mexico.

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So North America, I've got to travel quite a bit through golf, which is kind of cool and exciting.

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Yeah, and you are one of few who have PGA to general manager, especially with your CCM.

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How did you go from PGA professional to GM?

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What was that shift?

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Well, I think it was just a matter of responsibility.

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Once I became a head pro and then I was given an opportunity to be sort of the GM when my GM left and took on that responsibility.

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I've always been one who wants to control things and take over, right, yeah, total type a guy, so it's just a matter of uh, I enjoy making the decisions, I like running the show and and uh, so just casually, just kind of move forward.

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You know I was taking on more responsibility and then once I got a gm position at the deer creek golf club in littleton, colorado, um, you know, just that's where I wanted to stay did you jump in like right from golf pro to gm, like with, oh, that that had to be a, uh, a pretty big leap, like that was like, were you getting, were you learning and being like groomed for it?

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Did you kind of jump right in?

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Were you starting to learn about the management stuff already?

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Because I think there's not, or at least there wasn't, a lot of educational resources available for PGAs to go into that general manager position, if I'm not mistaken.

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Now, obviously there's a lot more big focus on education.

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So were you already getting into it or were you just kind of like thrown in and then you started like learning more?

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No, it's definitely a sort of both.

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I mean, I was a head pro for a while and then you know at that time there's sort of two tracks.

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You sort of could go to a country club and you know a high-end club and you're an assistant and you know you gradually wait for the guy above you to retire to where you can get more.

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Or in this situation it was American Golf who they had over, I think 200 courses at that time and were really controlling most of the management.

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And we're really controlling most of the management and so with them you could go work for them and you'd come in as a head pro, assistant, general manager, and then how fast they were growing and how they're going through people.

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You probably have a general manager job in six months.

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So we sort of learn on the fly through American golf.

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And that's where I sort of started.

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It was more of a public golf, semi-private atmosphere and so you just learn by fire getting in it.

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And the GM that I worked for, he ran a restaurant.

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He wasn't a golfer at all, so he taught me a lot of the food and beverage side of things and I taught him more about the golf side of things when it came through.

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But then at that time my love was really golf and sort of.

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I had another opportunity to go to Colorado and be a head pro at a club that was just starting up and turning private, and it was with my buddy, jason, who I kind of mentioned before.

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He runs Columbine Country Club now.

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He was a GM and he said, hey, I've taken over this club, come out to Colorado.

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And I had family ties in Evergreen right above Denver, so my wife and I said, heck, yeah, we'll take the leap and run out there.

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And then I became the head pro there and then over time he sort of another job at at another country club that the owner had and I sort of took over gm and that's where it all sort of started.

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Back in gosh.

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he was probably uh, 13, 2013 yeah, now that's a cool, cool spot to be in and a cool friend to pull you in like that and give you that chance and opportunity.

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That's a really cool progression.

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River City Country Club in San Dimas, right out of college.

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And you know, when I took off to go play professionally, you know he stayed back and started a business.

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So he got in earlier than I did and he went to go work for American Golf and sort of.

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You know he was their fixer.

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So he kept moving from course to course as they needed somebody else to come in and clean up.

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So he kept calling.

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He said, hey, I'm in Tallest in Mexico, you want to go there?

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I'm like no, I'm going to pass on that one.

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Then it was San Bernardino and I was like no, I'm going to pass.

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And then when he got to Colorado I said oh, that sounds like a much better deal.

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So that's how it sort of happened.

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And then, you know, we kind of now even still talk weekly about you know this situation or that situation, or what are you doing.

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That's a great thing about the club managers and even the PGA of America too, is, you know we're so open with each other and we throw out ideas and what are you doing about that, or what event happened, or you know what situation is going on with you, human resources or other situations.

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So that's been great.

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What sort of like mental shifts did you have to make, going from, you know, head golf pro to now GM Cause that that had to be like stressful also to now, you know, being responsible for a lot more people, a lot more jobs, a lot more responsibilities responsible for a lot more people, a lot more jobs, a lot more responsibilities.

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Yeah, I mean, I tell all my managers you know, doing the job is the easy part.

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It's managing the people is always the hardest part.

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And even in the same way, I think they focus a lot more on how to lead teams and how to be able to communicate with each.

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You know your employees because everybody sort of learns different listens different.

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Some need a kick in the butt, some need a pat on the back, and it's learning how to, you know, achieve the goals by how it works best for them.

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So really I think being a GM you went from just being the head pro, where you're trying to make everything the center of happiness down in your pro shop and all the members you know happy and you're teaching golf and running tournaments, to now when general manager is more about leading each of the department heads and then the communications with the members and the board of directors and sometimes, you know, I just wish, man, it would be kind of nice just to go back to being a head pro and think about playing golf and giving lessons and how many less headaches I'd have and probably how much better I'd sleep at night, not worrying about what happens the next day.

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Yeah, what are some of the things that keep your head scratching and keeping you up at night as a general manager?

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Keep your head scratching and keeping you up at night as a general manager.

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Well, I mean you're always kind of looking ahead what's happening, what's going on at the club, what situations, you know what member was upset about something, or you know how do we keep the shit going in the right direction.

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And you know you're always worried.

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I mean gosh the economy.

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The private country club revolves around the worried.

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I mean gosh the economy.

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The private country club revolves around the economy.

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And I mean it goes down and there's not much you can do except sort of hold on and adjust and change.

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I think COVID flipped the whole world on its end and then trying to manage day by day by different regulations and different things that come down the pipeline.

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That's just so quick that you've got to be quick to change and sort of ahead of the curve if you're going to be successful in this business.

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And really it's just where do we go from here every day?

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How do we get forward?

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Yeah, do you guys have a good strategic plan in place?

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Yeah, do you guys have a good strategic plan in place?

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Yeah, we've definitely sort of changed our model from I think we were headed in the direction of being trying to be too high end of a club in a way.

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You know you have to know your market and the prettiest you know clubhouse, nicest, great, unbelievable service and valet, but yet not many members want to pay for it and that's the fine line that you run of what can they afford and what will they accept with that?

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Yeah, with that, with the labor market being so tough and then minimum wages increasing so much, it's a tough deal for private clubs because 70% of your expenses are really all labor related and so when that minimum wage goes up a dollar, it truly affects the bottom line for a private country club.

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Yeah, was the club starting?

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So was it trying just to do so?

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it was trying to be that really high Trying to be a little higher right, a little higher end.

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So was it like just raising the initiation, raising the dues like big capital, like projects?

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Was it trying to do?

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Yeah, a little bit of that.

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Yeah, taking a step back.

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It's more of trying to uh, increase the service levels to the point where the dues line wouldn't really justify it.

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Yeah, that's, that's.

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The fine line with any club is that you want to be able to exceed their expectations but be able to live within their budget.

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And that was the sort of situation.

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So I think with us.

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You know, my goal and thoughts are that you want to be the friendliest club, the most enjoyable, that you want to be acceptable, that you know we don't want to be the stuffiest or most pretentious.

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And you know our club was founded by two gentlemen, basically, who wanted everyday Medford residents to be able to join a private country club and sort of.

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We were getting a little too far away from that being trying to be somebody much higher than we were, and I think it kind of turned off the community and turned off the members a little bit, because, mr Jackson, he wanted everybody to be able to afford a membership.

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It shouldn't be so I mean our dues are full in our 778.

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And with the amenities that we have 27 holes, two practice holes, double-ended range, we have a fitness center pool, indoor tennis facility, pickleball facility a miniature golf course, batting cages, bocce courts yeah, we've got a huge facility and anywhere else you'd be paying $1,000, $1,500 for, and paying $30,000 to $150,000 to get in, and we're $3,000.

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And the board's kept it.

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Yeah, the board's kept us that low.

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So, like anybody who's in Pacific Palisades, this is rough.

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Maybe a little too early to say and I hate that, but you know it's really.

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I think, uh, we were marketing towards the bay area in california because, I mean, the weather here is similar to central california and, uh, for three thousand dollars and 778 a month and you get all these amenities, it's, it's a unbelievable value bargain in the private club industry yeah.

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No, that's really neat that the club looked at it, took a step back.

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You know I love that.

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That's so cool.

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I think a lot of I shouldn't say a lot of clubs, but there are ones that you know clubs, organizations, whatever you want who lose that mission, that value, that like initial, what Compass of where you're headed so it's so cool that?

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so how?

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How did that?

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When did that start happening?

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Was it the boards?

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Was it some members like what was, what was that?

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Because and and you can answer as best as you can because I know you're new, ish, new, newer, uh and is is that part of the reason why you were brought in is to help help you with this a little bit.

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I think it's a general manager, you know, with any club this is, I think, my seventh club that I've run and sort of you come in and the GM sort of sets the tone and kind of directs.

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You know the way that he's trying to push the board and club members in, and the last GM sort of was pushing a little higher end, more than what I think the board and members wanted.

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So, uh, the change really happened by the change in gms.

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Uh, he took, he took a new position at a super high-end club in the desert and so he kind of fits that's what he wanted and, yeah, you know.

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So after that change, um, it came in and brought, brought in a golf guy.

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He was not a golf guy, he was a food and beverage guy.

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So their focus was really back on trying to get the golf course.

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Uh, the main focus and that's what we've done and just focus on the fun and enjoyment of the club and not necessarily that we have to be the the premier club in all of oregon.

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Yeah, I don't think that necessarily means success.

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Um, you know, in the private club industry I think happy members who are inviting their friends to join is the true, you know denominator of whether you're successful or not, and that's what we're getting back to yeah, no, it's cool.

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I was, um, uh, it was uh, chatting with jim jim miller.

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He used to run the sona nelp club in uh, california, colorado, and he and he's, and when, uh, when we were chatting he was, he was like it's it's one thing when, when the members will say, oh, this was great, but he's like it's another thing when the members' guests go yo this place or when they start saying stuff.

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That's always when you're like, all right, it's a good little pat on the back when you can get the guests saying really good things about it.

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The members are your best salespeople.

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I mean happy members inviting others, and that's the key.

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So getting that done is, you know, the goal of every GM.

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You shouldn't have to spend thousands of dollars on marketing strategies and publications and radio and TV.

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I mean just happy members inviting others is the core way to increase your membership.

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And I think you know, going back to the reason, what you guys are trying to accomplish, to get back to your roots, is when they can actually articulate why they're a member of their club too.

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It's not just like oh, we're a member, how come you should join, why?

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Ah, it's a good club.

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But it's like when you know where the club's going, why your member's there, and yeah, no, that's really really cool.

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What's been some of the hardest stuff about trying to maybe not the hardest stuff, but what's that journey been like?

00:19:43.651 --> 00:19:46.967
Now, going back to your roots, what's that been like?

00:19:46.967 --> 00:19:48.951
How do you start that process?

00:19:48.951 --> 00:19:55.211
Like so, now you, you know new gm, new, new kind of vision, or getting the vision back on track.

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What's your first order of business?

00:19:57.896 --> 00:19:58.726
Now you know what I mean.

00:19:58.726 --> 00:20:01.773
Like so, from your, your perspective, how do you start that?

00:20:01.794 --> 00:20:06.296
well, it's kind of the culture that you, you bring into your team.

00:20:06.296 --> 00:20:24.394
I mean, the most important job of a GM, too, is to build a team that supports you, that is thinking the same way, going in the right direction, and it's sort of having to, you know, create that culture and that feelings.

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Those feelings from the frontline staff, you know, come from the department heads, which goes from GM to department heads to the frontline staff.

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When the frontline staff are happy and energetic and feel great about what's going around at the club, well then that emanates into the membership and then from there the membership emanates into their friends and family that want to be part of the club.

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You know that fear of missing out, FOMO yeah, that we all talk about, but it is.

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It's creating events and memories that will last a lifetime, that you want other people to enjoy with you.

00:21:07.576 --> 00:21:17.063
That's a great thing about private club industry able to create those lifelong memories and generational memories.

00:21:17.703 --> 00:21:21.050
Yeah, how will you know?

00:21:21.050 --> 00:21:24.557
And when you know when you've got the ship back on track?

00:21:24.557 --> 00:21:27.795
How will you know when it's back on course and heading in the right direction?

00:21:28.884 --> 00:21:31.434
Oh, I think you just feel it within the membership.

00:21:31.434 --> 00:21:37.016
You know they're happy, they're energetic, they're coming back, they're visiting the club.

00:21:37.016 --> 00:21:56.038
You know, my thought is the more times that person drives down the driveway or drives their car to the club property, I mean that brings value, whether it's eating and drinking, it's working out, it's playing golf, it's playing bocce, bringing their kids, grandkids, to the pool.

00:21:56.038 --> 00:21:59.588
I mean that's the goal If they're starting to use the club again.

00:21:59.588 --> 00:22:09.930
I think that's the, you know, the telltale sign of success or not, and then your membership numbers will increase because of that.

00:22:09.930 --> 00:22:20.605
I mean, some clubs are full and that's great, um, but most clubs, most average clubs, um, you know there's they're always looking for the next set of members.

00:22:22.267 --> 00:22:23.409
so how many?

00:22:23.409 --> 00:22:24.810
How many memberships do you have?

00:22:25.853 --> 00:22:38.597
about 935 right now, with about 510 or so golfing and 400 social that is solid yeah yeah, it's real solid at the height of uh coven.

00:22:38.597 --> 00:22:49.369
They were up over a thousand, about 1100 um, but I, just as other clubs, sort of that social membership and uh people who joined do you have a capacity?

00:22:49.369 --> 00:22:55.045
You have a limit, a cap uh, yeah, we have, about 1100 is our is our limit.

00:22:55.045 --> 00:23:05.730
Yeah, we have a cap on our golfing, but again, with 27 holes um, you know, we are definitely far from fully utilized on our golf course.

00:23:06.971 --> 00:23:10.655
It's the social membership that was kind of, I think, twofold.

00:23:10.655 --> 00:23:18.407
At that 1,100 number you couldn't get courts, it was hard to get a sit at the pool.

00:23:18.448 --> 00:23:28.469
So now we're sort of stabilized at that number and that I think is where the membership really wants to be is sort of at this number.

00:23:28.469 --> 00:23:37.515
Yeah, is there or has there been thought of like lowering the cap, like just going like, hey, if we keep it at this, and then starting to maybe build a member like a list off that?

00:23:38.256 --> 00:23:41.911
yeah, I don't think we're sort of at that area right now.

00:23:41.911 --> 00:23:45.126
I think that's one of the tough decisions uh the board's gonna have to make.

00:23:45.126 --> 00:23:47.615
Uh kind of now is, where do we sit?

00:23:47.615 --> 00:23:49.102
Are we happy with our numbers?

00:23:49.102 --> 00:23:53.471
If we are, you know, we might have to ask everybody to pay a bit more.

00:23:53.471 --> 00:24:11.960
And I think once you get to that level of you know that tipping point, you don't want to charge too much and you want to make sure the members feel like You're doing your part on the backside as a GM, controlling expenses, and not a bunch of waste.

00:24:11.960 --> 00:24:19.538
Once they feel that, then I think they're more willing to pay, as long as they know it's going to the right place.

00:24:20.086 --> 00:24:30.314
Yeah, again, a lot of it is the transparency that every GM and every board Strives to have and every member says they're never transparent enough.

00:24:30.314 --> 00:24:37.451
You know, and again it, transparency's there, but most members, you know they just want to enjoy their membership.

00:24:37.451 --> 00:24:40.353
They don't want to be involved with the committee or on a board.

00:24:40.353 --> 00:24:48.056
You know they're great to a Monday morning quarterback, but to step up and and lead is another thing.

00:24:48.056 --> 00:24:57.019
Actually, here I've seen a lot more enthusiasm for committee-level people and for the board.

00:24:57.019 --> 00:25:07.359
I think that kind of shows too, about the happiness of the club members as a whole, the happiness of of the club members as a whole.

00:25:07.380 --> 00:25:16.646
Um, they're excited and they're they're eager to to help out.

00:25:16.646 --> 00:25:17.709
Yeah, what, uh, do you have advice words to?

00:25:17.709 --> 00:25:17.829
For?

00:25:17.829 --> 00:25:20.356
What about, like, younger people who are coming up through PGA and all of that?

00:25:20.356 --> 00:25:21.239
What, uh, you know?

00:25:21.239 --> 00:25:23.749
A word to the wise a word to the wise.

00:25:24.130 --> 00:25:25.555
I think it kind of sits down where.

00:25:25.555 --> 00:25:27.550
Well, you know, what do you want her to do?

00:25:27.550 --> 00:25:34.863
I mean, there's a lot of PGA guys coming up through the ranks and they love golf and they want to teach and and be head pros.

00:25:34.863 --> 00:25:44.595
You know, they don't want to have quite of the responsibility and, uh, all the extra headaches, you know it's a, it's a lot of of a lot of headaches.

00:25:44.595 --> 00:25:49.291
And I had a lot of worries about, you know, each department making sure things are running right.

00:25:49.291 --> 00:25:53.429
Um, so I think it depends on how how far they want to go.

00:25:53.429 --> 00:26:01.393
Um, you know, in this business you got to be a caregiver all the way around and it's just a matter of what level do you want?

00:26:01.393 --> 00:26:08.426
And again, for me, I just wanted more responsibility, I wanted to run the show, I wanted to be the boss.

00:26:08.907 --> 00:26:18.289
You know, that's sort of my mentality yeah so well, I think it's it's probably neat too that it at least there's.

00:26:18.289 --> 00:26:23.929
There's that option like there's that trajectory, it's hey, there's this, and let's just say this doesn't work out.

00:26:23.929 --> 00:26:31.744
I can start learning and educating and starting to maneuver lateral moves, diagonal moves, but you could figure it out.

00:26:41.977 --> 00:26:48.709
The PGA of America and CMIA through CMA and hotel restaurant other things you know.

00:26:48.769 --> 00:27:18.258
both have a good ancillary set of classes that you can learn which you're not as good at and there's also great mentoring now going on in both organizations that you know you can really reach out to people and you know learn and again sort of goes to that career path, whether you want to be at that high end club or you want to be at that regular Joe club or do you want to be the resort public, private you know whole thing.

00:27:18.258 --> 00:27:25.459
What do you really want to be and then from there you sort of have to pick your course where you want to be.

00:27:25.459 --> 00:27:32.393
And you know some people just want to run those daily fees and you know, go that way.

00:27:32.393 --> 00:27:40.798
And then others want to be more of that relationship manager, which comes with a lot more headaches, I think, but a lot more rewards.

00:27:40.798 --> 00:27:50.940
And you get to see, you know young kids grow up from, you know teenagers to going away to college, to come back and be successful.

00:27:51.685 --> 00:27:52.911
And they're still better than you.

00:27:52.911 --> 00:27:56.869
No, it's like how in the world?

00:27:56.869 --> 00:27:57.332
No.

00:27:57.553 --> 00:27:57.834
Yeah.

00:27:57.834 --> 00:27:59.430
But, that's great.

00:27:59.430 --> 00:28:04.035
I think with that it's just a matter of picking your poison, really.

00:28:04.035 --> 00:28:05.798
Yeah, At a point.

00:28:07.484 --> 00:28:15.484
Yeah, it's just a matter of picking your, picking your poison, really, yeah, at a point, yeah, it's.

00:28:15.484 --> 00:28:25.490
It's just neat that like there's like what many, many, many rooms in the house, of clubs or whatever I forget that saying many rooms in the house or wherever, but like there's so many cool, it's like that's just the path, like people have so many different options and they can just open up the doors to so many different things.

00:28:37.125 --> 00:28:47.401
I think one great thing about private club industry is that I've had a lot of people start as a bartender or a barback or a cart guy and now you see them running country clubs or you see them being head pros at country clubs or you see them running huge food and beverage operations.

00:28:47.401 --> 00:28:59.195
So I mean it's kind of neat in that situation where we get to touch a lot of young kids, you know as they grow up and trying to decide what they want to do.

00:28:59.195 --> 00:29:01.911
You know what are you really excited about?

00:29:01.911 --> 00:29:02.473
What side?

00:29:02.473 --> 00:29:05.515
I mean, if you like sales, you become a membership director.

00:29:05.515 --> 00:29:09.616
If you really like the food and beverage operations, you become a food and beverage manager.

00:29:10.285 --> 00:29:12.354
If you love the golf side of it, you become a golf.

00:29:12.354 --> 00:29:19.538
Hey, if you like the fitness and the tennis and the kids activities and the other things, you could be a sports director.

00:29:19.538 --> 00:29:24.691
So you got a million different ways to go and it's a great like.

00:29:24.691 --> 00:29:31.845
A club is just a great training program for young kids as they start high school and go through college.

00:29:31.845 --> 00:29:43.479
You know you have a lot of kids that their first job is this, because mom and dad said, hey, you've got to go get a job, go ask if they need a car guy or a bartender or a lifeguard or that.

00:29:43.479 --> 00:29:57.928
So we get to mold a lot of young kids and that's again one of the great parts of my job is getting to see these kids grow up into productive and successful you know, young men and women, yeah.

00:29:59.049 --> 00:29:59.170
It's.

00:29:59.170 --> 00:30:08.535
It's clubs are almost the right club, the right GM, who like, who thinks like this and sees the vision and gives that vision.

00:30:08.535 --> 00:30:17.516
When you work at a club like that, it's like you're having a professional development plan with a pay plan attached to it.

00:30:17.516 --> 00:30:25.457
There's more to it, but if you just sift through a little bit you can see the bigger picture of it.

00:30:25.805 --> 00:30:28.368
But like if you you know, just sift through a little bit, you can see the bigger picture of it Right.

00:30:28.388 --> 00:30:35.339
A lot of times, I mean, we're you go to school to learn education, but you come to a club to learn life and how to interact.

00:30:42.625 --> 00:30:45.130
Again, I think so much of our success comes from interaction, of how we are able to interact with others.

00:30:45.150 --> 00:31:00.315
And again, having so many members and touch points with members, you learn to your communication skills, your interpersonal skills, you know how to, how to talk, how to act, how to stand and be confident.

00:31:00.315 --> 00:31:11.640
And again, you see a lot of kids who are sort of timid their first job and then they sort of get comfortable and get more confidence in their, their abilities and out front with people.

00:31:11.640 --> 00:31:38.597
And it's great, I mean I can think of a couple of kids here where last year when I saw them, you know kind of shy and timid and now they're, you know, a year in, or coming back from college after, after going away for a year, and you see them come back and they're standing up straighter and more confident and reach across the table at you to shake your hand, as opposed to you know coming in sort of shoulders down, head down.

00:31:38.597 --> 00:31:49.968
And again, just a great part of of having so many young people work under you, that you get to affect so many lives yeah, that's awesome.

00:31:51.971 --> 00:31:58.066
I don't know Again, being very few of the PGA and CMAA, I think it's likely.

00:31:58.066 --> 00:31:59.829
I have both experience.

00:31:59.829 --> 00:32:03.977
Not everybody has the whole golf side of it.

00:32:03.977 --> 00:32:08.025
I think that is a big difference for most clubs.

00:32:08.025 --> 00:32:21.498
I think that, circling back, at first it was the CMAA and a lot of clubs were hiring, you know, food and beverage people because of almost every club the food and beverage operations is not very good.

00:32:21.498 --> 00:32:29.284
You know, when you're looking for a new GM, it's usually because people stop coming to the restaurant and just the food's not good.

00:32:29.284 --> 00:32:47.400
So every time you know you're looking at a new GM, they were always constantly trying to work on the food and beverage side of it and I think now it's circled back to where now boards are starting to look more towards PGA guys, because the golf course is the most important part on clubs.

00:32:47.400 --> 00:32:51.559
With golf, obviously, city clubs and other things, it's more about the food and beverage.

00:32:51.559 --> 00:33:02.306
But any club with a golf course now I think that PGA initials behind your name are really getting more and more powerful in the industry.

00:33:03.732 --> 00:33:11.402
Yeah, and it touches on what you said as well, and it's something I've been, you know, there's a couple of GMs and just people I've been chatting with too.

00:33:11.402 --> 00:33:17.241
It's you know, each club is its own thing.

00:33:17.241 --> 00:33:24.957
It has its own culture, its values, its own personality and, just like you as a GM and as as club professionals, everyone has their own style and stuff too.

00:33:24.957 --> 00:33:27.071
And just because you apply doesn't mean you're the best fit.

00:33:27.071 --> 00:33:36.116
So it is also about like I think now there's a lot more people like try going more with their guts and saying no to things because they just know it's not a good fit.

00:33:36.497 --> 00:33:40.183
And on both ends the professional and the clubs and the boards it's really now going.

00:33:40.183 --> 00:33:47.961
Hey, this is our issue, let's try to, not our issue, but here's where we're going, here's where we want to be.

00:33:47.961 --> 00:33:51.472
Things could be going great, could be not, but hey, let's find that right person that is a good fit.

00:33:51.472 --> 00:34:01.159
I think that's really important too, because now it's like you have a special set of skills and for the right club you're a really good fit.

00:34:01.159 --> 00:34:02.675
So why not try to find that?

00:34:02.675 --> 00:34:07.199
I think sometimes they go like they just apply for a job and get pissed if they don't get it.

00:34:07.199 --> 00:34:28.759
It's like we're really good fit, though, and were you a good fit for them, like maybe you just weren't great Like, so it's cool seeing that and knowing that you know there's there's more special fits for people like that out there and just how like what a what a specific problem does to solve, and to know that you can solve that specific problem, that is killer.

00:34:29.159 --> 00:34:36.516
Yeah, and again, I think, with the interviewing process, as much as they were always interviewing me, I was interviewing them.

00:34:36.516 --> 00:34:41.318
I mean I want that culture from them, I want that feeling from them.

00:34:41.318 --> 00:34:45.972
You know, I've felt that at different clubs.

00:34:45.972 --> 00:34:55.137
Every time you sort of get in and you sort of feel the board and for GMs it really comes down to the board's really your boss, not the members.

00:34:55.137 --> 00:35:03.161
I mean they give you a lot of input but really, you know, your job depends on whether the board is behind you and thinking the same way.

00:35:03.161 --> 00:35:12.751
So you know, I took a job at a place that I thought was going to be, you know, higher and better and had more things, and it was.

00:35:12.751 --> 00:35:19.045
You know, I took it but knowing that the board was not a good working board.

00:35:19.045 --> 00:35:22.059
It was very, it was very tough.

00:35:22.059 --> 00:35:32.619
And again I found that situation where, even though the members were great, it was such a poor board that it was brutal, it was horrible and a bad situation.

00:35:32.619 --> 00:35:58.913
And a lot of us GMs find us find in the same situation to where you know you could have a change in board members and then all of a sudden you go from a ship that's sailing in the right direction by the nine board members in the GM and all of a sudden you've got a couple of people jump on there and now they're turning the ship way left or right and you know you find yourself in a different situation.

00:35:59.014 --> 00:36:08.139
And again I think the clubs that are most successful are those that hire the right people, hire the right GM and allow them to do the job.

00:36:08.139 --> 00:36:27.161
I was talking to a colleague yesterday where, you know, in the past year they've lost their GM, their superintendent, they went through two GMs, lost their GM, their superintendent, they went through two GMs, lost their superintendent, their food and beverage manager, their controller, their office manager, and it's all because the board is sort of taking over running the club.

00:36:27.161 --> 00:36:29.958
And again it goes back to that whole culture.

00:36:29.958 --> 00:36:36.637
You know it's toxic there and the board is beta toxic now and you know nobody wants to work for him.

00:36:36.637 --> 00:36:56.860
Even I had a phone call from one of my past employees who was looking for another job because it just wasn't fun, it was brutal, and you know the board was trying to run everything and they just weren't allowing their skilled people to run the club for them and and you see that situation a lot, I'm afraid, in the in the club business.

00:36:56.880 --> 00:36:57.681
So can you?

00:36:57.681 --> 00:36:58.943
Can you spot that though?

00:36:58.943 --> 00:37:03.434
Like you as a or do or do some clubs hide that well?

00:37:03.434 --> 00:37:11.077
Like do some boards hide it well that they put on like, just just like there's people who put on a good, a great interview and then they get to the job.

00:37:11.077 --> 00:37:11.418
Who did we hire?

00:37:11.418 --> 00:37:11.597
I'm sure?

00:37:11.597 --> 00:37:12.639
I'm sure it's the same for for boards and clubs too.

00:37:12.639 --> 00:37:13.300
I'm like, well, who did we hire?

00:37:13.300 --> 00:37:15.143
I'm sure it's the same for boards and clubs too.

00:37:15.164 --> 00:37:18.528
I'm sure some hide that very well and look, oh look, come on in.

00:37:18.528 --> 00:37:19.230
The water is warm.

00:37:19.230 --> 00:37:19.610
You get in.

00:37:19.610 --> 00:37:20.514
You're like this is freezing.

00:37:20.514 --> 00:37:21.458
What did you guys get me into?

00:37:21.871 --> 00:37:33.282
Well, and the club industry is kind of small too, right, you know, if you see a club that burns through three or four GMs in a matter of years, you to work too hard.

00:37:33.282 --> 00:37:39.945
But when it comes down to it you got to think there's some dysfunction in the board within itself that's creating those.

00:37:39.945 --> 00:37:48.672
And again I've had it to where you sort of the code for us general managers and pros are like, hey, would you put that guy in your foursome?

00:37:48.672 --> 00:37:51.338
Would you, you know hire?

00:37:51.338 --> 00:37:53.143
Somebody calls hey, do you know this guy?

00:37:53.143 --> 00:38:03.472
What do you think about him?

00:38:03.472 --> 00:38:05.237
I don't think I'd invite him to my foursome, you know, next saturday, but uh, he's okay.

00:38:05.237 --> 00:38:06.139
Yeah, um, so you, you find it both ways in that.

00:38:06.139 --> 00:38:23.346
But yeah, the board is really the determining factor on that, on that club, whether it's enjoyable and fun or just brutal yeah, that was good, that was good um the hard truth, right, you know, and it's no, it's, it's, it is, it's um, no it.

00:38:24.853 --> 00:38:27.340
And it's so funny because other people have said it.

00:38:27.340 --> 00:38:31.418
It's like you have these amazing people sometimes who run successful.

00:38:31.418 --> 00:38:44.159
You know they're successful in their own right and run extremely well-run companies, but for some reason you get them into a board and some of them are on boards of other things and you're like how in the world do you guys all function other ways?

00:38:44.260 --> 00:38:51.335
but yeah, well, I think the private club is industry in itself is so specific.

00:38:51.335 --> 00:39:04.362
You know that if you run a you know manufacturing company or you run even if you own a restaurant, right, all these guys own restaurants and bars and they say, oh, my bar makes money.

00:39:04.362 --> 00:39:13.099
Like, well, yeah, your bar isn't open from 5 am till 11 pm every night and you don't have five people waiting for the next member to walk in.

00:39:13.099 --> 00:39:16.679
I mean you can't set those hours.

00:39:16.679 --> 00:39:30.373
I mean it doesn't make sense, financial sense, to do a lot of things we do in the food and beverage industry and, you know, in private clubs, but we do it because it's customer service, it's not designed to be a profit center.

00:39:30.873 --> 00:39:32.255
And that's where they lose.

00:39:32.255 --> 00:39:45.519
You know their understanding of what they think they know as a private company owner rather than a board member of a private country club.

00:39:45.519 --> 00:39:48.197
So that's where you get.

00:39:48.197 --> 00:39:55.519
You're always trying to find the lawyer, the, you know the, the insurance guy.

00:39:55.519 --> 00:39:57.402
You've got to have those particular professions.

00:39:57.402 --> 00:39:58.744
So they, they help you with.

00:39:58.744 --> 00:40:10.498
You know the situations at the club, but yet you know some of your best people are just regular Joes who aren't trying to be, you know, the president of a club.

00:40:10.498 --> 00:40:16.920
They just want to tell you what they love about the club and and want to be supportive of the club.

00:40:17.543 --> 00:40:23.762
So keep your hands out of the operations and just make sure the numbers look good, and then we'll call it a day, guys.

00:40:24.170 --> 00:40:26.496
Yeah what makes what makes your group happy?

00:40:26.496 --> 00:40:27.940
Where do you want to take the club?

00:40:27.940 --> 00:40:39.554
I mean, if you guys all want to be just the easiest, funnest club and enjoyable, where animals can come anytime they, you know, dogs or whatever.

00:40:39.554 --> 00:40:41.601
I mean that's, that's the direction, right?

00:40:41.902 --> 00:40:47.559
yeah, it's like I can't imagine some of them going on a cruise ship, walking into the captain's area, going what does this button do?

00:40:47.559 --> 00:40:57.402
Let me see that if I turn this, does it move the wheel like stop, like, yeah yeah, tell me what kind of uh luau party you want.

00:40:57.682 --> 00:40:59.806
Uh, you know that's what we'll focus on.

00:40:59.806 --> 00:41:01.193
Is the fun and enjoyment.

00:41:02.394 --> 00:41:04.239
But it's, you know, it's great.

00:41:04.239 --> 00:41:07.373
You know my wife says, well, what are you doing today at work?

00:41:07.373 --> 00:41:10.222
I'm like I don't know, we'll find out it.

00:41:10.222 --> 00:41:20.336
Just you walk in and you know just 100 things come at you constantly during the day and you just put out fires and try to get ahead of things.

00:41:20.336 --> 00:41:24.820
So it's kind of fun in the fact that you know it's not just day to day.

00:41:24.820 --> 00:41:29.144
I could never be an accountant or something where you're just crunching numbers.

00:41:29.144 --> 00:41:30.666
You know day after day.

00:41:38.489 --> 00:41:39.833
You know, it's just organized chaos, as I tell our guys and guys.

00:41:39.853 --> 00:41:42.380
You know, you know, on the back side, when you walk behind in the kitchen, it's organized chaos.

00:41:42.380 --> 00:41:52.724
But when you walk out into the, into the, room of the members all's great, so yeah hey, uh, we the power just went out, uh, now what?

00:42:00.630 --> 00:42:00.750
out.

00:42:00.750 --> 00:42:01.030
Uh, now what?

00:42:01.030 --> 00:42:02.353
Guess what we're having candlelight tonight.

00:42:02.373 --> 00:42:03.135
Uh, crazy, early valentine's day.

00:42:03.135 --> 00:42:11.617
We have this big spaghetti feed that the members throw at one part at one club and it was called the olga spaghetti feed, the oakdale ladies golf association.

00:42:11.617 --> 00:42:24.422
So, you know, the ladies put this all on and the guys, the senior men, help in the back of the kitchen cooking the pasta and doing all that and it's sort of all hands on to where it's all members and sort of this fundraiser that they do.

00:42:24.422 --> 00:42:28.481
Well, you know, there's 250 people in our building and the lights go out.

00:42:28.481 --> 00:42:34.851
Well, now it's like, oh my gosh, now I've got a bunch of members you know who aren't my staff.

00:42:34.851 --> 00:42:39.954
I've only got like three staff members that night With the knives in the kitchen, yeah.

00:42:40.175 --> 00:42:41.755
And so you know what happens.

00:42:41.755 --> 00:42:44.255
It's like, well, okay, let's find candles.

00:42:44.255 --> 00:42:46.476
So it was great, we found a bunch of candles.

00:42:46.476 --> 00:42:55.800
Now they said, well, I mean, we have gas, but we have no, we have no water, because we're on a well, so we can't get any water.

00:42:55.800 --> 00:43:06.786
I'm like, well, we got ice in the ice machine, so put a bunch of ice in the pots and boil it and get it to where the water and now we can make the pasta and the sauce.

00:43:06.786 --> 00:43:11.728
So we ended up throwing a whole party, you know, with no electricity, no running water.

00:43:11.728 --> 00:43:19.576
And you know, after the event, the ladies came to me and said do you think we could do it by candlelight?

00:43:19.655 --> 00:43:20.137
next year.

00:43:20.157 --> 00:43:24.052
I'm like, yes, candlelight, but yes, electricity.

00:43:24.052 --> 00:43:27.099
We could just turn off the lights, but again.

00:43:27.099 --> 00:43:29.452
That's where, again, you have to be quick on your feet.

00:43:29.452 --> 00:43:36.275
As a GM, you know just how can you make that organized chaos work on the front side.

00:43:36.710 --> 00:43:38.112
Limitations force creativity.

00:43:38.454 --> 00:43:40.637
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're fast thinkers.

00:43:41.539 --> 00:43:42.762