April 21, 2025
437: Coaching, Consulting, and the Club Life in Between w/ Kevin Ehlert
Kevin Ehlert shares his journey from dishwasher to GM to consultant and certified coach, bringing a refreshing perspective on what leadership really looks like when you strip away the title, pressure, and 'always on' mentality that many GMs feel they must maintain.
• Starting as a dishwasher and working his way up through various city clubs
• The distinct differences between mentoring, coaching, and consulting
• Why leaders often feel isolated and unable to show vulnerability
• How curiosity may be the most important leadership trait
• The value of continuous learning through books and shared experiences
• Finding ways to create safe spaces for leaders to be authentic
• Why we should celebrate milestones along our leadership journey
• Approaching leadership like orienteering - having a map but being flexible with the route
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00:00 - Welcome to Private Club Radio
04:43 - Kevin's Journey: From Dishwasher to GM
10:18 - Club Management Across Different Cities
22:59 - The Difference Between Coaching and Mentoring
33:28 - Book Recommendations for Leadership Growth
41:29 - Leadership Loneliness and Vulnerability
WEBVTT
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Hey everybody, welcome to the Private Club Radio Show, where we give you the scoop on all things private golf and country clubs from mastering leadership and management, food and beverage excellence, member engagement secrets, board governance and everything in between, all while keeping it fun and light.
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Whether you're a club veteran just getting your feet wet or somewhere in the middle, you are in the right place.
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I'm your host, denny Corby.
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Welcome to the show.
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In this episode I sit down with my friend, kevin Ellert, all the way from Wisconsin, from Wisconsin.
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And what a great guy, what a great person, a good human.
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I've known Kevin can't tell you how many years now five, six, seven, pre-pandemic, for sure.
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We met at a CMAA event the Wisconsin Badger many, many years ago and we got to chatting at CMAA and got to recording and it almost turned into a coaching session for me.
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It felt like, because then he started interviewing me and at one point I was like wait, what's going on here?
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But just a great person, a good human, starting off as a dishwasher to GM to now consultant and certified coach, and he brings a real refreshing perspective to the club space.
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We recorded this episode at the CMA conference back in Tampa and we talk about what leadership really looks like when you strip away the title, the pressure and that always on mentality that I think so many GMs think that they have to have.
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We talk about the difference between mentoring, coaching and just giving advice, why there's a bunch of managers who feel alone at the top and what we can do about that.
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And one of my favorite things is why curiosity might be the most important leadership trait of all.
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I'm super stoked to bring this episode for you all.
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We had a great conversation.
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Before we get to that, a quick thanks to some of our show partners Kenneth's Member, vetting Club, capital Group Members, first Golf Life Navigators and Concert Golf Partners, as well as myself.
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The Denny Corby Experience there's excitement, there's mystery.
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Also there's magic, mind reading, comedy and crowd work.
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One of the most fun, interactive, engaging experiences and shows you can bring to your members.
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Want to learn more?
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Head on over to dennycorbycom.
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But enough about that, let's get to the episode Private Club Radio.
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Let's welcome to the show.
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Kevin Eller.
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Kevin Ehlert Came over right after World War I and were embarrassed about what was happening in Germany.
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Yeah.
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So I wish they had just changed.
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You know American.
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They refused to speak German.
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My grandfather was born here and never learned German.
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There's a lot of families that are like that.
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There's some that will own and keep their traditions.
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Others are like we are going to modernize and not learned German.
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There's a lot of families that are like that.
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There's some that will own and keep their traditions, and others are like we are going to modernize and not adjust at all.
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And so Wells, minnesota, was German-Polish, and then I grew up in Bryson.
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We were out in the farm country, so just how the lines were drawn.
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So I went to Bryson, which is Norwegian, but during World War II there was a POW camp in Wells, just outside of town, and German POWs came over and were there and there was one guard at the gate and people they either worked at.
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So there was a Blue Bunny factory, there was a Del Monte canning factory in town and they had all the farmers.
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So there's a Blue Bunny factory, there was a Del Monte canning factory in town and they had all the farmers and they actually came over to family and so they had to spend.
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I think, if I remember they had to spend Friday night at the POW camp, otherwise Saturday through and maybe it was Saturday it was either Friday night night or saturday night.
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Wow, so like life in a pew w camp here was very different than in germany and what?
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what year was that then?
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in 1940s and they made.
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They had a hemp factory.
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They made rope for initially the factory made rope hemp for shipping and stuff and then it was all for the war yeah.
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And then were you the first person in your family to get in the clubs.
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How did you find your way?
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Was it school after school, during school?
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I fell into it.
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So I put my son like 15 years old, dad's, like you should have a job in the wintertime.
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I grew up on a farm so we worked, you know, spring through fall, but like get some pocket money.
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So I washed dishes at the Legion, no, at the pub.
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So there's Bryson's, this tiny town, there's two bars in town, and then the funny thing is aa was right behind it on the same, you know, same front main street pub, legion, aa on the backside.
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But so I'm 15, I'm washing dishes and about 10, 30 at night somebody out of the bar is yelling, hey, can you come and help?
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And the bartender had passed out.
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And so I, from 10, 30 till one at night, all I really did was open beer and pour straight.
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With 15, statute of limitations is gone.
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I'm sure I'm fine at this point, yeah.
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So in a sense, actually, truthfully, I got into this business through Boy Scouts.
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You know, you go to summer camp, yeah, you cook for four or five, six hundred people or you cook for your small group, stuff like that.
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So I got into the hospitality side that way.
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And then in college I worked in bars, restaurants, clubs.
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And then in college I worked in bars, restaurants, clubs, you know, go serve banquet server for a club when they need help and stuff like that.
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So that's how I kind of fell in and I went to school for physics and engineering.
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And then music and dance for minors.
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Well, I guess if you're going to properly jump, you should know the proper trajectory to jump off the foot and land properly.
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So the college piece.
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I thought I wanted to be an architect, be an engineer.
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I was the first one in our family to go to college Really so and I realized, as I was kind of finishing up, that there's no way I'm going to be a draftsman and an architect and sit in some office and draw.
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I'm an extrovert.
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I'm not a functioning extrovert.
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I'm not, you know.
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I'm like I need this and I need to help people.
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Where was your first management gig?
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It was at a little semi-private nine-hole golf course west side of the Twin Cities called River's Edge.
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They had a big banquet operation.
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They had a big restaurant and a cute little nine-hole golf course.
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There's a river that ran through it Darn thing flooded every spring, you know, because you know rain runoff in Minnesota was bad.
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Were you always in?
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No, because you were in Colorado for a bit right.
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No, no, you were always in Minnesota.
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Minnesota, wisconsin, and then I did spend seven years in California.
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That's what I was thinking California, so not in Folsom Prison, but what was the difference between?
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Because it had to be a slight change of pace from Minnesota to California.
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Yeah, I went from one city club to another.
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So I mean, and I actually went, so I managed a woman's club, the woman's club in Minneapolis, and then I went to the Sutter Club club, which had been a men's only club, um, and then so the state broke them and in they said they, california can't describe, yeah, you know.
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And they, they hated the setter club.
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It was right across from the capitol, very republican or very conservative club, and so the state said, fine, you can, um, you can discriminate by by sex if you want.
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And then they wrote a law that said no organizations that discriminate may have a liquor license.
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And so then the club put to a vote and it passed like 98%.
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They had like 10 votes, no, so their liquor license was more important than some stupid principle of not letting women in, where the women's club let men in in the 70s and actually I kind of went back and I read through their history they never prohibited men from joining, but in the 70s, you know, somebody passed away and the husband was like hey, can I keep the membership?
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You know our family's growing up here and they're like sure, we don't care.
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But yeah, it was a little different, um, although sacramento itself is a in a lot of senses, like the midwest.
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Uh, it's why, uh, the kings got all the crap about being a cow town, you know when, remember when, nba, all that.
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But no, it was a little different because Sacramento itself was a government town, like there was not Minneapolis, st Paul, twin Cities was so much more diverse, like you had Medtronic, boston Scientific, 3m, honeywell, like, I think, the biggest congregation of Fortune 500 companies and maybe still and so a very intellectually diverse, yeah, and not as much banking as you do find out, like in Des Moines or stuff like that.
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So it actually was a little.
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It wasn't nearly as diverse in some senses, and the pace of life in Sacramento was actually pretty slow.
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Really, it's a government town, nothing happens, and I don't mean to be disrespectful or mean, you know, and it was weird Back then.
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So it was 2008,.
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Sacramento's marketing was we're 90 minutes from San Francisco, we're 90 minutes from Lake Tahoe and we're 90 minutes from Napa Valley.
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And I remember getting working with a chamber group in the city.
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I'm like, why are you putting your marketing on three other places?
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You're the sixth largest economy in the world.
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It's here.
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Sure, it all happens elsewhere.
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It's here.
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Who cares about San Francisco or Napa or Tahoe?
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Own it Exactly, they didn't own it.
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Own it and exactly they didn't own it.
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So the town was slow, like we were a city club.
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We closed at 5 o'clock.
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We weren't open for dinner, because no one came.
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No one came.
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You know, they went out to the suburbs, went out to the country clubs at night.
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Lunch was booming, Yep, breakfast or no, we did breakfast.
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They shot themselves in the foot because where they served breakfast they required coat and tie.
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And here was the crazy thing.
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So we're in California, which is already laid back, yeah, and in town the lawyers didn't even wear a suit, except they had suits in their closets at work if they had to go to court.
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And on Fridays we were so slow, even at lunch, because we didn't allow jeans, and everybody, and I mean everybody in Sacramento, wore jeans on Friday.
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So, but they still wanted to be coat and tie, yeah, in that room, but yet they wouldn't come and use it.
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So, anyways.
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So how many city clubs were you at?
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Just those two.
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Those two, and then I did work in San Francisco.
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I did a year, a little over a year, doing consulting at a woman's club in San Francisco as well.
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So three big city clubs in my career.
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And then what made you pivot, from management to the consulting and things that you're doing now consulting and coaching.
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I think finding you know one, finding a way to give back.
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I've always been a coach.
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How so?
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Even back in high school, people asked for help.
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I'd see someone who needed help with something and I'm not talking about they need help with math or stuff like that, but life stuff and so I think part of it.
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I'll go back to Boy Scouts, because there, in some senses, they teach you how to mentor.
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What's the difference between a mentor and a coach?
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Is there?
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Mentors usually don't get paid Coaches.
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Do you know, a coach is somewhat transactional, it doesn't mean you don't care for clients and things like that.
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But with a mentor you're building a relationship and usually it's someone older and someone younger, but you know the the mentee is meant to have a built, have built trust and have a safe space.
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I guess that's the popular word term now.
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But you know, hey, I don't know how to do this, or I'm scared of this, or you know.
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So is it more like tough love versus like.
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So is it more like mentoring is a little bit more hand-holding, whereas coaching is a little bit more like, okay, shut up and just do it.
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Like a little bit more I want to say no, shut up and do it is consulting, okay.
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So I got Shut up and do it is consulting, okay.
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Okay.
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So I got certified as a coach this year, like I've done this forever, I've never been certified.
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And so I took this sabbatical.
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My wife was like you should get certified, you should.
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You know, you've been doing this forever.
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And I found out I was doing about 30% of it wrong.
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You know, that's a big change forever.
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And I found out I was doing about 30% of it wrong.
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You know, and that's a big Sure.
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And so here's the deal as a consultant, you tell your client or the company this is what's wrong, here's how you fix it.
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As a coach, you ask questions and truthfully, and then I'll talk.
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The mentee piece I'll talk about as well.
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So, as a coach, you ask some questions, leading questions, you listen and then you want them to have the aha moment or the light bulb go off.
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You know, sometimes be visit, but it.
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And every once, while it opens, you know, the Sun comes out and yeah, and the angels say, but you.
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And so what I was doing wrong is I was conflating coaching and consulting a little bit.
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I was too eager to tell you what was wrong.
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You know, and sometimes you have to the client has to struggle through.
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You know, really has to struggle through.
00:15:38.493 --> 00:15:41.128
Yeah, and I mean, all of us have blocks.
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I have blocks even to this day, and you want to help them work through that block and it's best for them if they do it and they're guided through, as opposed to you telling them they're blocked.
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Is that sort of like.
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The difference too between like a, I guess, like a more experienced coach is like when you're first you get it, you're more eager and you want to just like see them get the results and like that's it.
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But it's like as you kind of grow a little bit, you're like oh no, this has to be right, and a coach is not a therapist, like it's.
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Like it's, it's very easy to get sucked in, um, and so I mean, I have a couple of therapists for people, um, like, I always encourage them, hey, do you have someone that you know if you're a spiritual person, you know.
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Do you have someone at your you know if it's a church or whatever that is?
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You know.
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But some of these things are therapy, they're not coaching, you know.
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You know sometimes you're dealing with mental illness or you know.
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So the difference between coach, mentor and consultant.
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So the mentor piece, I think it's both consulting and coaching.
00:16:52.755 --> 00:16:57.907
But I have a couple of people that we have been.
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They started off as a mentor, as a mentee, 10, 15 years ago 15 years ago the one I'm thinking of specifically and we still connect.
00:17:10.343 --> 00:17:20.244
So here's the thing, I think, with a mentee the question what do you want to be when you grow up?
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Magician, okay.
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But now what does that mean?
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Let's dig into that a little bit.
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What does that mean?
00:17:26.694 --> 00:17:28.306
What do you want to be five years from now?
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Do you still want to be a magician?
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If the answer is no, you want to be something else.
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Or do you want to have, five years from now, I want to be on Penn Teller, I want to be featured, those types of things.
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Five years from now, I want to have kids, or I want to open up a magic school, all those types of things, and so having that relationship, you're asked that question all the time.
00:18:03.473 --> 00:18:10.455
My youngest daughter came home from christmas and we've had our first serious conversation.
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She's like dad, what do you want to be when you grow up?
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She asked you, she asked me.
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We still, we still do so.
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I have some.
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I grew up on a farm and my grandmother said some very inspiring things to me.
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One God gave you two ears and one mouth.
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Use them accordingly.
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Two if you're not learning, you're dying, and unfortunately she lost her eyesight later in life and so she couldn't read anymore, and that just was so hard for her.
00:18:41.306 --> 00:18:50.688
But she's like you need to learn and learn from books, learn from people, and so I've had this thirst for knowledge.
00:18:50.688 --> 00:18:59.474
You know it's something that was instilled in us as just and it wasn't you have to do this.
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It just, it was natural.
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It was what our family did.
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It was natural, it was what our family did.
00:19:05.443 --> 00:19:12.088
So I try to, as a mentor and as a coach, I try to instill that in people.
00:19:12.088 --> 00:19:15.071
Some people hate reading books.
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I have one daughter.
00:19:16.393 --> 00:19:24.726
It's hard sometimes, yeah, so she listens to podcasts, she listens to books on tape Yep Now you're dating yourself.
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Books on tape.
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Audible.
00:19:29.325 --> 00:19:30.567
Oh, my books on tape audible, oh my gosh.
00:19:30.567 --> 00:19:30.888
I just did.
00:19:30.888 --> 00:19:32.012
Books on cassette, oh my gosh, this is awesome.
00:19:32.012 --> 00:19:41.678
I'm hey, I'm old, I'm old actually, yeah, we won't go there, but uh, you know, and I mean, my audible library is monstrous, by the way.
00:19:41.678 --> 00:19:43.483
So, but Do I compare?
00:19:43.483 --> 00:19:44.125
No, no.
00:19:44.125 --> 00:19:52.490
And then I have another daughter she reads and she just wants the book.
00:19:52.490 --> 00:19:58.490
And then I have another daughter She'll do podcasts and stuff.
00:19:58.490 --> 00:20:05.292
She doesn't have to pay tons of attention, but she wants it on Kindle, she wants it digital.
00:20:05.292 --> 00:20:11.752
So three different daughters, three different types of consuming knowledge.
00:20:11.859 --> 00:20:14.730
Do any of them do the book and the audio.
00:20:14.730 --> 00:20:23.372
So I'm a big fan of doing both, because sometimes, even though I'll read or I'll listen, my brain will just go off.
00:20:23.372 --> 00:20:24.441
But I can.
00:20:24.441 --> 00:20:39.442
If I read they're not always like in in in perfect sync, but like it'll just help me get through it, or I can just get things a little bit better interesting or like sometimes, if I know like what's already sort of coming, I can like comprehend it and take it in like a little bit differently and better.
00:20:39.461 --> 00:20:48.009
Yeah, like, for me like, and I don't have any particular way, but I buy a lot of things on both.
00:20:48.009 --> 00:20:49.246
It drives my wife crazy.
00:20:49.246 --> 00:20:51.980
Why don't you One?
00:20:51.980 --> 00:20:56.867
So I try to buy cheap used books all the time, unless I want one that I really think is important.
00:20:56.867 --> 00:21:00.930
But I'll listen to the same thing.
00:21:00.930 --> 00:21:02.324
But I don't do it side by side.
00:21:02.324 --> 00:21:03.006
That's interesting.
00:21:03.708 --> 00:21:13.753
It's not always, because I know on Audible and Kindle you can have them sync, so where you stop listening it'll pick up on the kindle and vice versa.
00:21:13.753 --> 00:21:24.211
Like it could, they can, but I just like I was like listen to it, then I'll also like just read it, but I don't keep them in like perfect, like harmony yeah, I like.
00:21:24.332 --> 00:21:25.835
I like writing in books, me too.
00:21:25.835 --> 00:21:28.000
My books have notes and tags.
00:21:28.848 --> 00:21:38.691
I wasn't for a while, I think, because growing up in school they're like you can't ruin the book, you can't do X, y and Z, and I have some expensive magic books.
00:21:38.691 --> 00:21:42.844
And now, over the past couple of years I'm just like screw it.
00:21:42.844 --> 00:21:55.348
Now I'm just doggier pages, just writing them, some of the real expensive ones, like it's like post-it notes, like I won't like destroy, but like it's just engaging with the book, like just yeah, just I don't know.
00:21:55.348 --> 00:22:04.782
And then there is something like to be said like I have friends with libraries or like in mint condition, they're just like read it like it's a book, it's just paper, just engage with it.
00:22:05.404 --> 00:22:07.148
Um, so yeah do you give books to people?
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